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        • And what cherries are you picking, Frank? You have hundreds of years of post-slavery America during which racial and economic inequalities experienced by blacks are perfectly well documented, but ya know, there is always some white person who had it rough too. Right? Who the fuck is cherry picking?!

      • Kram, lets have a look at this exchange and then see what point stands. 

        You claimed race relations were a convenient fig  leaf over violence, suggesting the protests could be divorced from race relations. 

        I told some anecdotes, because you had suggested anyone familiar with the US would know there is violence on either side of the racial divide. it's one thing to visit a place. What happens when you live there? I spent years there in both the south east and mid west 

        My stories were meant to indicate that many black Americans experience systemic racism extending to way before either of us were born. The OJ Simpson story illustrates Of course it makes sense to consider it reprehensible to cheer OJ. But to many blacks it represented a cynical response to a history of always getting the short end of the stick. It's a confronting interpretation but I'm telling you it's the thought that was conveyed to me repeatedly when I asked.

        Again, you can't extract the experience of systemic racism from that story or others and still pretend you understand the Black American experience. 

        Now look at your response. A story about a white guy suffering violence. How does that change the point that to understand blacks experience you have to understand their experience of their culture?

        Yeah, exactly, your story fails to address it. Put simply, it's invincible ignorance.

        You sound like the Nazi who told stories about the Jew over-charging them one time. I'm sure you don't mean to sound that way so I just say have a think about it. 

        • My point is that violence solves nothing - violence for, against, with or in the name of blacks, whites, yellows and any other color (American spelling) you choose to nominate is unacceptable.

          That's not a point that makes me sound like a Nazi, or invincibly ignorant. You've completely missed my very simple point. I don't disagree with anything you have said, or are argueing. I don't deny black systematic racism for a minute. I simply don't believe violence does the cause any favours whatsoever and ultimately does far more harm than good. That has been proven to be correct over many decades and it will be proven to be correct again in this instance - that may be unsatisfactory to you (and me) but it doesn't change the fact that nothing will change as a result of what is happening right now.

          I have lived in America as well. I still work in the US around 6 months of the year and have been doing so for 20 years. My business works exclusively for a US company. I understand American culture.

          There's no need to suggest that I'm ignorant Daz - this isn't an arguement that can be won or lost. I am absolutely, utterly convinced however that non violent mass protest would achieve so much more than what we are witnessing right now - it may even encourage a few elites who actually have the power to lobby government and actually achieve something to get involved. Won't happen though.

           

          • Fair points. Kram. 
            I agree violence rarely solves anything. Though violence as a reaction can certainly tell us a whole group has given up on non-violent solutions. With that thought in mind, what should be made of the violence? Does straight condemnation imply an easy acquisence about the conditions the violence reflects? That's my larger question. Put differently, yes we can condemn violence, but stopping at condemnation  without going on to give serious consideration to the conditions that led to it would be to let critique of those conditions off the hook. I have no issue with anyone condemning the violence if they then admit the underlying conditions are real and need to be tackled. 

            Apologies for the ignorance comment. Typed too fast. I was though thinking that I have seen so many comments that find some black on white crime and then falsely equate that with the situation blacks have found themselves in living in the US. The stats tell a different story. I think we are white washing of the problem. One can rebut that by metaphors like the Nazi who points to a Jewish tomato seller over charging him, but that metaphor of scale might not always hit home. But scale is the issue

            • Agree wholeheartedly mate.

              My story wasn't actually meant to be a tit-for-tat black on white violent crime story. I love that (albeit horrific) story because the four heroes were black. Some people are good and some aren't and skin colour has no bearing on it. Hate is hate. Love is love.

              Imagine how many more people would come out if the protests were guaranteed peacefull and the people knew there was no threat of violence. They could get 2 million at Central Park no problem and 500k in Sydney (probably alot more). I'd be there along with zillions others like me. The closest I've ever seen to something like this was Live Aid '85 - where the global community literally united - one of the great spectacles of my life. It's a pipe dream I know - but how good would it be . . . . . . . . . . 

              Take care mate :)

    • These "peaceful" demonstrations as the lefty media are calling them, are nothing more than riots now....no matter what the cause there's no excuse for this carnage.

      The main culprits of these fake demonstrations are ANTIFA - the vehicle the left use to incite civil unrest and rioting. Pallets of bricks and weapons being dropped off in strategic places in the dead of night so that these so called peaceful demonstrators can pickup next day and destroy property and hurl at police. 
      Yep only the left could defend these pieces of shit.

      • Franky do you have any prison tatts. You remind me of my best mate . Biker. Reel smart in the know is sayin the same thing as you. Hes got the hottest Swatsticker tattoo .. top guy . Lefties made his life hell. God bless you!! 

        • Yeah matter of fact I do Princess....

          I've got one on my old fella and it says
          Antidisestablishmentarianism.

           

          • You probably should know Tess that "tank" has a big gun "14inches" that he is happy to clean up the town with when required.....he is like a retired Sheriff!

            He's a good guy, just doesn't tolerate arrogant pricks! 

            • Tes has probably got a bigger one . . . . 

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