PREAMBLE: Ladies and Gentleman, Super is happy for this discussion to continue if we can remain civil and disagree respectfully, updated as necessary. If not, comments will be removed and if necessary the blog closed and any future Kirk-related blogs closed for discussion.
Part 1, by Wiz (more right leaning)
Part 2, by Prof Daz (more left leaning)
SYNOPSIS: Charlie Kirk spoke his final words at 12:23 p.m. on September 10, 2025, at Utah Valley University, in front of around three thousand people. Tyler Robinson, the 22-year-old alleged shooter of the 31-year-old Republican, remains under investigation. Utah’s governor suggested he may have been radicalized by the Left, though his MAGA-entrenched family and transgender partner complicate the narrative.
The attack shook the United States, exposing deep ideological fractures. Two days later, President Donald Trump concluded that “the radicals on the left are the problem” rather than the radical right who, he said, merely want to “stop crime,” framing the debate in partisan terms during a live Fox News interview. However, voices such as Jack Posobiec and Steve Bannon, speakers at Kirk’s conventions, had long used hard-line rhetoric, calling the Left “demonic” and urging the building of “an army of the awakened.”
History offers a far broader perspective. Abraham Lincoln, Yitzhak Rabin, Mahatma Gandhi, and Martin Luther King Jr. were assassinated by right-wing extremists. John F. Kennedy and Archduke Franz Ferdinand, whose death helped ignite World War I, were killed by left-leaning radicals. A two-way street.
Just months earlier, on June 14, Democrats Melissa and Mark Hortman were gunned down in their Brooklyn home by Vance Boelter, a hard-right evangelical, white Christian who disguised himself as a police officer. Married nearly 32 years, the couple left behind two children. The killings, however, received far less attention than Kirk’s death and did not prompt a presidential call to confront the radical right.
“What do they all share in common? Every political assassination is an attack on the collective; on our ability to disagree without destroying,” an academic observer noted. George Bernard Shaw called it the "extreme form of censorship."
Left or Right isn't the problem in my view. The greater danger lies in the radical mind and in how easily society nurtures the “us versus them” divide. As Desmond Tutu warned, “The moment we divide the world into ‘us’ and ‘them,’ we begin to lose our humanity.”
Charlie Kirk (above and below) is survived by his wife and two children.
Married nearly 32 years, Melissa and Mark Hortman as well as Gilbert, their Labrador (below) leave behind two children.
Boelter who assasinated the Hartmans allegedly kept a hit list of 70 targets, including Democratic lawmakers and even some anti-abortion clinics. The same early morning at 2am he invaded the Minnesota home (above) of the Hoffmans and their children who survived the shooting following surgery.
Replies
Trump said something similar: The Left is the problem. The Right essentially are victims. The Old Blame-Game-Victim routine works a treat at solving things.
How are you going to fix things? Do a Bob "Cart the Left off to work camps" Smith who calls for Civil War?
I suppose the two husband and wife Democrats getting gunned by a hard-right winger in their home along with their Labrador was their own fault? The Left's fault, or fake news.
There is no peaceful solution to the problem in the US. Both sides ceased civilised dialogue years ago. What's your solution? Keep bickering and telling one side to reform while the other keeps being violent?
Bob, You're wrong and/or misled on that point. The radical right has been violent, not just the radical Left. Ask the kids of the Two Democrats, husband & wife, gunned down in their home along with their Labrador by a hard-right winger. Months before Kirk. What happened to all four and their families was tragic.
You've misunderstood my point. If one side surrenders - it doesn't matter who - the other side doesn't, how is that a solution?
Bob, Correct me if I'm wrong.
You said: "one side is being told to "reform" while "the other keeps being violent".
1. Facts. Both radical sides have been violent, no?
2. How is the "Right" being told to "reform" or 'surrender" ? By using pronouns? Some people not liking you waving the flag? Reading Daz? The Guardian? Universities with ideologies existing? Give me specific examples how it adversely affects you in your life. Just want to understand the specifics of your grievances. You might be surprised how much tougher life is in other countries.
3. Who is the "Left" forcing this upon you? Me? I'm centre left. I'm not asking for those things. Not much into identity politics or whatever it's called. Just respect as much as possible.
Those questions are in relation to your claims. If you really wish to have an adult arguement. I'm in, if you are.
You haven't answered the questions I asked, so why should I answer yours? I'm not getting dragged into a long, drawn out 'debate', when I'm to be the only one answering questions.
What rule/law/thing would you make/change to bring about your Christofascist Utopia, BobtheGronk???
One at at time now, this ain't your mums boudoir
Bob, Fair enough, I'll answer your questions. Framing the deep issues in terms of Victim-Blame-Games helps no-one. Worse still is your solution: Civil Wars & carting off masses to "work camps".
In terms of solutions, Trump has some good features and is a strong figure, but he's playing similar games you are albeit in a less extreme and radical fashion, fortunately. So forget it. Things could devolve. It looks like we'll need to wait for the another president, Left, Right or otherwise, who seeks to solve the deep divides in radicalism — for baby steps.
Bob, once you give up on a solution that matches liberal-democratic-secular norms, whatever solution one has arrived at can be dressed up in all kinds of rationality but it will be pernicious. Thinking the only option is to amplify violence is to have given up on a liberal-democratic-secular solution.
If a solution could be found by a 'liberal-democratic-secular' solution, it would have been found already.
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