Eels Blogs

Yesterday, former Origin and Eel 233-gamer, Tim Mannah spent an intriguing two hours on James Graham's Bye Round podcast. They discuss the road ahead for Ryles. The lessons learned from the Dogs' rise this year. Daniel Anderson's genius. Matt Cameron. Mannah's ugly end under Arthur where they stopped talking and communicating. And the Eels' lost culture post Brian Smith resulting in the lack of unity in the club.

Graham: 'Where does he start?'

Mannah sighed.

"It's a big task [for Ryles]. But it's it's exciting one as well for him and for the club," he told Graham.

"I think from day one, and I've always believed this: Our CEO, our head of football our coach, all the key stakeholders. Head of marketing. Head of membership. Get them all in the boardroom, and say this is the direction we need to go when as a club, and we need everyone going there together," Mannah asserted.

Graham summarized this as an "alignment" from "the front office to the coaching staff to the the people that are feeding the juniors."

"We've just lack that [unity] for whatever reason. If you even go back to you know the different board changes we've had over the years, there were venues there for fractures to happen," he told Graham.

Mannah believes somewhere along the line, after Brian Smith, the club lost its way.

Image: Eels' second longest serving coach Brian Smith; Mannah believes the Eels lost their way after Brian Smith went

Essentially, both Mannah and Graham are paraphrasing Jack Gibson's axiom: "winning starts at the top".

While, the Eels' club looks forward to the future and "New Eras", Mannah looks to the past.

The Lost Culture: Lost Unity

"I know people talk about the fact Brian didn't win a grand final but he had a very successful culture in the club when he was there - from the 14s all the way through the first grade."

"When I came through that system and if you have one first grader in your age group it's a good age group. We had nine like we had myself Jared Hayne, Trent Hopkinson, Chris Keating, Tony Williams [etc]. We had like a really good side."

"And then, all of a sudden there was football here, office here and Junior pathway here, and Parra Leagues there. Everything was very fractured and and isolated," Mannah lamented.

"I think the club needs to just kind of unite and get everyone on the same page again. And when they do that, it's a it's a powerful Club."

It's not the first time Mannah has publicly said that the Eels had lost what they used to have. He told SEN radio a similar thing in early July.

I feel the last ten or eleven years [Arthur reign] we've really slipped away from Parramatta used to be.

A lot of former players really feel passionate about the club, and what it was in the past.

And it will be great to see it get back there.

Mannah told SEN Radio, early July 2024; causing Brandy to raise his eybrows

"I keep using this as example but Matt Cameron, CEO of Football, at the Penrith Panthers."

"He was my 20s coach at Parramatta. He was my assistant coach when I first debuted."

"He was ahead of the game in everything, like stats wise, data. He was doing things before any coach was even thinking about it. But not only that he's just a champion human."

"He was at paramount for all those years when Brian Smith [was there]."

"And in that system we were like little robots. We were 15 year old getting taught what NRL was getting taught. Getting flogged. Getting taught all the basics so that at 15 you could train with the NRL - and we did train with the NRL and do Club sessions - and you wouldn't fill out of place because you're all getting taught the same thing."

Image: Matt Cameron, former Eel, now Panthers CEO of Football

"And Matty Cameron's out at Penrith now: look at what Penrith have done now."

"It's the exact same model. Those young 16 ,17 18 year olds are all coming through the system and they just continue to breed them through and through."

"So, Parra has kind of got to go back to that model where we've got this huge catchment of quality and really good kids in our system how do we make sure that they come through our system and want to play for our club."

"Not only develop them but to make sure that they want to stay at that club."

"It's one thing to make good players. But it's another thing to build that loyalty and that love for the club that you know you have at a young age which we all had.

"The guys I grew up with, never did anyone want to leave they only left if they had no choice."

Image: Mannah with  Eels' legend, Ray Price; Mannah beleves we need to return to the past  | Getty

"So what changed?"

Mannah didn't hesitate when Graham asked.

"Well, the decade I was there you know we had four different board changes. I had six different CEOs. I played under six different coaches," Mannah exclaimed in resignation.

"So, a lot changed. Prior to that ... when Brian was there [it was different]. He was there, I think, for 10 years as a coach and that board was there for 30 years. Same CEO. Same board."

"So there was a lot of stability then and and everyone just knew their role and knew how to create a successful Club."

"It helped that in the 80s that that we had that success. Everyone knew had just continue to breathe that."

"But somewhere along the line the club we've definitely lost that."

"[But] We can get it back."

"I don't know the exact formula but there's things that can be done that can help you get there a lot quicker," Mannah replied.

Image: a stern-faced Jason Ryles giving instructions at training

Ryles has to put his foot down

"He's got to put his foot down. He's got to be firm. But at the same time you don't want to lose everyone in the process," Mannah opined.

"You've got to show the love, but also be like hey 'we'vre not going to cop this this and that."

"So, he's got a tough role. But I think I think he can do it."

"I don't know him a lot. On a few occasions I met him, and I know a lot of Melbourne players that speak very highly of him, but I don't know him well enough to know what kind of coach he'll be," Mannah admitted.

I spoke to a few of the Storm players after the game and they're actually shattered that they lost Jason.

Obviously that speaks levels about what he's like as a person."

Dylan Brown, round 22 pre-game, 29 July 2024

 

Building Long-term Culture versus Winning

James Graham noted that Ryles had a challenging time ahead and faced the question of long-term culture versus winning.

"I guess it's hard for him [Ryles] because he needs to turn around in results but then also invest in projects that are going to yeah you know you're going to bring a player through in 2030," Graham pointed out.

"He may not he may not be there to take advantage of that. He's going to be judged off NRL results and probably NRL results only."

It's not always a happy marriage seeking short-to-medium term winning results over long-term cultural strategies. It something Brian McDermott, the most successful coach in Super League history has a clear vision about. He takes the Wayne Bennett approach: winning comes first.

At some stage you have to fall on one side or the other [culture and environment or winning].

Which one are you? What type of coach are you?

There's a danger in my opinion, going too far and thinking all about that [culture and environment] .

Brian McDermott,  believes sometimes coaches give themselves "an out" by focusing too much on overall club cultural ideologies - Part 3 of 3, Coaching the Coaches

 

The Bridges of Alignment at the Dogs

Mannah, asked James Graham is he had anything to do with the Dogs' extraordinary rise this year.

"I do Ambassador roles with them, basically. But I know that they are very aligned," Graham pointed out.

"They're a good example like they've given they've given Ciraldo a bit of patience and yes [there was] last year [Dogs came third-last in 2023]," Mannah pointed out.

"Personally, I know Parra fans don't want to hear this but I think this next 12 months probably be challenging 12 months for the club and in the same way it was for the Dogs with the new start," Mannah replied.

"But, if they get it right there's no reason why this there isn't great success after that."

"But you they've got to make changes um and then like you said they got to be patient with the coach. They've got to give him time. They can't just rush results straight away."

"You got to get understand that the grassroots got to get fixed and if they can fix that you're going to see those results coming in the later years."

"But, I think the Dogs are great a great system to look at as well they they've done a massive turnaround in a short amount of time," Mannah opinioned.

James Graham spoke positively at some of the footy intelligence we had in the juniors.

"Well, just on Junior Pathways, I know that Parramatta have got two very sharp Minds." Graham told Mannah.

"One, older in terms of James Shephard who coached me at the Dragons. Even in my early 30s, he was still teaching me things and coaching me. And then Josh Hodgson who is involved in the pathways there as well."

"So, they've got some good people in there," Graham offered.

"And that little midget Issac DaGois who does recruitment [juniors]," Mannah added.

"The thing is they're they're all amazing at their job. So, they're good at developing the players. But, unfortunately for them, their job stops at that. So then it's just that connection that transition from getting him them from there to the NRL."

"And that's where I guess you know your head of football in that department have got to kind of step up and say 'how do we create a culture and a transitional success to get them from there to there'."

Graham agreed with Mannah. This "bridge" of Grahams's really goes back to unity and alignment in the club, toe-to-toe - glue tying the entire club together.

Unity across an entire organization is some Frank Ponissi , Storm GM, talks about passionately. It's a reason he ended up at the Storm instead of Manly. A few years ago he told Matty Johns that the difference between successful organizations and unsuccesful ones wasn't about getting "good people". It was about strong leadership uniting the entire organization.

Ponissi's experience shows him getting good people - or even great people - wasn't enough.

The first thing I noticed [when he started at the Storm] was incredible, strong leadership. I came from a place north-end that had a lot of outstanding players and good people. There was good people. But they just didn't work together and the leaders as a group just didn't work together for the best of the team.

You got here and that's the first thing. It's just the leadership within this group. The player leadership was just so strong.

And the second thing which has stayed throughout is just the incredible high standards and expectations led by the coach.

Frank Ponissi, on the Matty Johns show  June 2021  

Unity, high standards, patience and alignment was what is the real driver behind the Dogs - with some unsung heroes outside of Gus and Ciraldo.

Image: Gus Gould is the Dog's  "bridge" according to Graham who set the foundation for firsts and Ciraldo; something the Eels' need

"It is a bit big task and there's that bridge across [that's needed],"" Graham replied.

Graham explained that was what Gus Gould was doing - providing the "bridge" between pathways and the firsts.

"There's a whole team of people [working for Gus] but Gus would be looking at more the type of person [character and competitiveness of a player] and and also casting the net pretty far and wide," Graham added.

Image: The unsung heroes behind the Dogs. John Khoury (former chairman2020-Feb 2024, who brought Gus on board as well as tycoons Laudry Group, poured money into Pathways), Josh Jackson (centre) Adam Druissi (new chairman and was on board from 2022)

"And then Josh Jackson is one of the people that's involved in the junior coaching ranks," Graham explained.

"Josh Jackson is there to to test them. And if you can get through Jacko, you can get into first team."

"There was an old trainer, I don't know if you know him, called Gary Carden who bought a lot of ex-Bulldogs players to speak about when they came through. They had to go through Gary and was very old."

Graham commented that some of the Dog's methods departed from Sports Science.

"The head of performance would be blowing up, and saying this isn't right [it's against Sports Science]."

"But it's not designed to peak performance. It's designed to break them [players] and then see what happens."

"Because a lot of the time on the football field, or even away from the football field with the pressure of results and the pressure a fan expectation it can break you," Graham concluded.

"We've got a game where there are so many uncontrolled variables are week to week with the emotion of sport. We've got the pressure of sport. We've got the media. Sometimes, I don't think they factor that in to the training and and it's great that it comes from a scientific base base but also the the people like if you turn up on your a scientific nerd and you try and connect with 40 players, you're just gone. We're not listening," Graham gave his take on Sports Science versus Old School boot camps.

In a sense this was similar to the hard-core boot camps of Bennett, or Bellamy or even what Flanagan did at the Saints over the off-season. Flanagan raised fitness levels both physically and mentally to beyond breaking points.

There are some lessons in there for us.

One lesson that isn't discussed is the lessons of leaders that helped the Dogs' rise from the abyss of recent times - before this year.

Specifically, what  Koudry, the former Dogs Chairman (2020-Feb 2024) did. He got a new GM in Gus to hop on the the board (from 2021- now), as well as the Laudry tycoons, and poured into pathways & development (Jackson and Carden were tips of the iceberg) and backed both Gus & new coach Ciraldo. He stepped down as the Dogs were third last year and tongues were wagging about Ciraldo. They kept the faith. It took four years after the new GM.

It's a similar story to what Shiela Ford Hamp did when she took over the reigns at the floundering, perennial loser of a club, the Detroit Lions in 2020. She started in started by hiring a new GM and Head Coach. Three years later it's paying dividends and they reached the Championship Title contenders and wom their first finals in decades. 

It can take 3-5 years.

Mannah: spoke highly of Moses, Dylan and Penisini.

On Contracts Clauses & Speculation: Drawing Lines in the Sand

Mannah believes the horses have bolted as they have an existing contract, and it would be difficult to change them.

Hoever, he believed they needed more clarity from players so the club could plan ahead - and use players as a bargaining chip.

"I'd like them all to stay at the club [players like Moses, Dylan, Penisini]," Mannah admitted and praised the players under speculation.

"But at the same time Ryles has to draw a line in the sand and say are you in or out. Let's not play this game because that's that's a distraction that can then lead to poor culture," Mannah confessed.

"Only let them go, if you can win"., Graham offered free advice sighting the Dragons' hold over Hunt as an example.
 

I'm here to stay. I like Parra.

Dylan Brown, Monday, 29 July 2024 ,told the media round 22 pre-game

 

"Regardless of whether it's a Nathan Cleary or or a junior kid I don't think there's anyone in in your squad that should control the club and you know no player is bigger than the club."

"So if you let someone hold you to ransom, then the club will really struggle with that".

"If you're out, it's fine we we'll figure out how that looks. But we're not going to like continue just to beg you..."

"It gets a bit embarrassing for the club when you always have having a you know be on your knees begging for like someone to stay," Mannah admitted.

Other topics Mannah discusses with Graham:

• His best mate Haynesy He believes Jarryd Hayne (above) is a "footy genius" and had extraordinary vision and would see things that even the coaches didn't. He believes Hayne could offer extraordianry services as a specialist coach to playmakers. He also laughed at the differences between the two - despite being born on the same day and same year - and coming through the grades together from the under 14s. Mannah claimed Hayne operated under "Fiji time" and was always late and unstructured in comparison to his more structured and punctual ways. He believes or hopes Hayne will be one-day embraced back into the club, despite any politically incorrect optics.
• The incredible 2009 grand final run and his love for Daniel Anderson: "the best coach I've ever had."  Graham also agreed on how much Anderson did for him as a player too.
• A game with the Knights circa ten years ago or so when the Novocastrians used sandpaper on their forearms to add some extra bite in their tackles and cat-claws scratches all over the Eels faces.
• Graham and Mannah hilarously joked about how much they missed the permeating smell of glue (for handling of course). The deep heat smell.

• Whether he wants to be on the board. believing it would make perfect sense.

• The "wog" in him 'loves business".

• his ugly last year so at the Eels: where Brad Arthur stopped talking to him, and the coaching staff were walking on egg shells. Also, the confusing message given to him by the head of football and the Eels' club incredible back-flip after Mannah had essentially agreed to terms with the Tigers.

Mannah's Footy career during the Eels' great upheavals this century:

• Born: 15 February 1988 (currently 36 years old)

• Circa 2001 -08 (from 13-14 to 20 years old):  Eels Junior with Hayne; it was during Brian Smith  (1997-2006) and Fitzgerald era (1973-mid 2009).

• 2009–19 ( 21-31 ) 233 games for the Eels; Anderson was his first NRL coach (2009); but mid 2009 Fitzgerald was removed and replaced by Paul Osbourne; these marked the beginning of dark years (including 2016 cap scandal during Sharp's reign) and the Donnelly reign (as Eels. Footy chairman July 2016 - August 2018) where Mannah told Graham during his decade at first grade "I had six different CEOs. I played under six different coaches," to mark the change of culture, a fracturing and loss of unity Mannah refers to.

• Representative history: NSW Origin (4 games, 2010-11), City NSW (4 games, 2010-13), Prime Minister's XII (1 game, 2012), Lebanon (5 games including World Cups, 2017-19)

• Mannah's one club Eels' career from a 13-14 year old junior to his decade in first grade from the beginning of this century meant he went through the Brian Smith era [1997-2006],  the Fitzy epoch  [1973-mid-2009], a bright spot [Anderson's 2009 and apex of Hayne's genius], then the dark ages [2010-2016] and Sharp era cap scandals through the Constitution Reform under Donnelly [July 2016- Late 2018], Gurr, the McElduff era, as well as the Arthur era [2014-2024].