I was reading and posting on the Ray Stone appreciation blog today and it made me think about why I went off Stone from a couple of years back, when I got excited by his whole presentation and demeanour and a reminder of another Ray.
I think I am back now but we need to understand his context relative to our whole defence.
Someone suggested he should get 10 minutes in the opening of every half. It's a nice theory but it has no practice in a literal sense. Stone played so well the other night because he had an opportunity to play a full game. When you just throw someone in for 10 minutes, there is a balance required. This is where Stoney loses his objective i.e. trying to cram in more than the circumstances allow. His defence in isolation is very good technically, but unless it folds into the total defence, it doesn't work i.e. a scambled defence with cover.
Our defence has to be like a "roman legion" i.e. totally linked, you cant have individual's coming out of the line unless a support process is built into it. How many time's do you see a hole in the ruck after the slow recovery of Lane, Materson or Stone when they are on.(maybe after making a great tackle). If you look at Papallii and also Dyllan Brown, they recover very quickly after making a tackle.....this first instance is a major flaw in our defence.
A couple of people talked about Fergs defence the other night when Cleary did the wrap around of the scrum, here is an example of him coming out of the line, BUT he was reading it from the wing that they had no chance to stop it unless he came in to close down the extra man. Now this is bad coaching and onfield tactics, blind Freddie could see that move coming and no individual or leader adjusted for it other than the maligned winger.Fergs has been around a long time and knows and sees things the other dills don't. Sometimes the person screaming is the first one shot!
The pattern of our defence against Melb was swarming and covering across, YES like Penrith, Storm and Roosters do. Souths have caught up....interesting if you notice Melb are having a problem on there edges and that is because they are questioning themselves, Olam is playing with different players and is doing a "Stone" i.e. big hits but the few misses cost dearly. Look at the tries we scored against Melb exploiting this.
So maybe we should be careful about being excited about big hits, especially in this judiciary environment. Maybe the emphasis is that Roman legion like linking and communication rather than the applause from a team mate based on the sound of the thump.
How far we go and we can go further than we think, if we can get that defence acting as one and not a team of individuals making the TV commentators go into hystericals over a "sivo" type hit. ie. we all know how much bullshit is in that line.
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Well written Poppa. What you say makes a lot of sense.
Yep. Stone had a great game but I see him as fill in who won't let us down. I would still have Cartwright on the bench who is a genuine game breaker if required. I am glad that Penrith out on that scrum move. It will help our sliding defence going forward and if it is not addressed by the coaching staff then it will not look good in their next job resume. That move also opens up the prospect of reversing the play at the scrum base as a variant like the Reynolds/Quayle move. I love that move and cannot understand why it is not used.
PT, I am starting to think it is too complicated for the intelligence of our players. When you think of that on Friday night, why and how could they not be awake to it, The scrum base should have started moving in cover from the time Cleary started his sprint.......how many people here younger than 60 would even know of the Reynolds/Qyayle move? I have feeling Souths may have done it recently. These newer style locks (ie non middle's are better built for it).
I wonder when we have randums (seemingly) feed the scrum, that we have a plan in doing so? In the case of defense let a backrower stand wide and have Dyllan lock the scrum, he is the best and fastest cover defender we have to follow the movement from the scrum base. The reality is when Fergs comes into close off the extra man, that immediately cover is going behind him. Simple communication that no one seems own.
But who's counting??? LOL i.e. who's on first? Abbot or Costello?
I would use the Reynolds/Quayle move with Dylan at lock for it. I would probably have a stroke with excitement if they tried it. I would DEFINATELY be using the move at 2:03 - simple and it works.
That scrum move by the riff, is interesting as they set the line in that move & its primarilly on the right side, also they have pretty much an equaly number of players on both sides of the scrum, rather than 2 on one side and the remaining numbers on the other side.
The eels move is primarilly to come in and cut off the play, problem is that the line is too close to each other leaving a large open on the wingers outside. Cleary sees which side to feed on and the foot on ball still in the scrum comes out late, no attempt by the Riff to push the scrum either, (why doesn't the eels pack push the scrum as they are allowed to do?) The speed men of the riff can easily get past the slowing opposition especially with lumbering backs, Fergs is unable to turn and chase in time either.
The best defense for that Penrith move and I laughed when Joey was commenting on it is at scrum you push the scrum to upset the halves ball.
As what Penrith do is there lock holds it in the back if your pushing the scrum it screws there ability to deliver the pass.
OR if when they set up on the left our right hand side of our scrum pushes to upset the ball as mentioned above or wheel the scrum left again to upset delivery.
I'm really surprised no one hasn't seen that as a deterrent to that Penrith move.It's what I'd do.But it's all based around the scrum.
As for the back defense it's up compressed and everyone protects an inside shoulder and push out and up,don't stop pushing up me out take away time and space Gutho be prepared for the kick.
One more way to counter the move is to actually have someone in the line defend behind the scrum. Whereever Luai goes, so in the game the left, that defender follows to keep it as a 4 v 4.
Just push every defensive scrum inside your 20.
I guarantee you it screws most scrum attacks.
No one pushes in league scrums it's a rarity and a Avenue not many exercise.
Yep both pushing and a defender behind the scrum will negate the play.
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