How can anyone say that the half back that has led his side to 4 straight grandfinal wins and one of them almost single handedly cannot play Origin Football.
Up until last night he had played 16 games witha 50% win record. He doesn't need to be defended as the best player in the world (I am no Cleary fan as a person) his record proves he is. His coaches for NSW (forget last year he was out) have been pretty ordinary and Meninga at a National level does/did him no service.
It can only be dumb Parramatta fans that would always blame the half back when the forwards provide no platform.
The answer is simple Laurie Daley was completely out of his depth. He coached this side from world beaters in round 1 to nothings in round 3. He just does not get how the modern game has changed since he played. That's a reflection on him and the NSW process, not the game.
His interchange use last night was disgraceful, his understanding of how the game would be refereed was also total naiveity. Klein managed the game in round 2 and now come round 3 just left the game to its own devices. Qld played with lightening play the balls and laid all over the NSW ruck, basically discounting any play the ball speed NSW could garner. They finally woke up to that in the last 20 minutes and guess what, they were pretty even through that period.
Get over it, I'm a NSW supporter and we were completely outsmarted and out coached.
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The last time I checked this was a football forum. As such, I can say whatever I like (within reason), about whoever I like, whenever I like. You can choose to disagree (which is fine) but there's no judge, jury and executioner, only opinions. I thought Cleary was rubbish, you thought that was because of our forward pack. We disagree. The end.
Cause and effect there's a replay go watch the game.
The truth will unveil itself.
Coryn I thought Rueben Cotter was outstanding all night , he played like Martin has the last few years.
Im a massive fan of Liam but he's off his usual pace this year and Angus Crichton after a man of the series display last year was even quieter.
NSW couldn't find a way to utilise these blokes well enough.
The game within the game there centres and edges out performed the bigger named counter parts even Capewell on the other edge has had a fantastic last 2 games.
This is what the disappointing part is our coaches seemingly can't see past the names and think that's enough Queensland continue to pick workers glue guys and get it done.Slater made the adjustments tactically and with regards to selections and got the job done.
NSW continue this stupid idea that talent trumps all and don't build teams they worry about individuals over the collective.Maroons get it even when they lose they still get it NSW are to worried about what people think and what's been written in the papers.
Yes agreed too Cotter was fantastic asked to do a job rolled his sleeves up and did it.How many are talking about him NSW will harp on about Crichton and his MoM performance even after they've lost the series.Bottom line the blues don't get it.
The chess move with Cotter and Capewell especially Cotter is they always got numbers to Mitchell and while the latter did have some impact for the most part all night the edge with Cotter Koia and co got it done.
Chess move moving Cotter from the middle to edge stiffened them up considerably and negated To'o outside of yardage and Mitchell for the most part.
Poppa asks "how can anyone say" Clearly "can't play Origin".
Like this . . . Cleary can't play Origin.
See, it's bloody easy!
Is it true that Cleary has a 50/50 record in Origin AND crucially that he has lost all three deciders in which he has played? I believe this stat is true, having seen/heard it references a few times (have nto double checked myself but it rings true anecdotally).
All the NRL talking heads - Gould, Cronk, Johns etc etc - repeatedly say "Origin is different". That Cleary has been part of a 4x premiership Panfers team is thus NOT a lock for excusing his failures at Origin level. IF Origin is so different - as all the talking heads say - then performance at Origin level is the mark of performance at Origin level, not performance on grand final day?
Who could look at games 2 and 3 this year and conclude anything other than Cleary was a misfiring passenger for most of those two games?
Sack Cleary!!!
I took a quick look at the last 2 series and the halves pairings.
2024:
Game 1: No Cleary, No Moses, Blues lose
Game 2: Moses and Luai, Blues win
Game 3: Moses and Luai, Blues win
2025:
Game 1: Cleary and Moses, Blues win
Game 2: Cleary and Luai, Blues lose
Game 3: Cleary and Luai, Blues lose
Penrith over the last 5 years have built themselves on taking their opponents to the 80th minute. They apply constant pressure and wait for their oppponents to crack, then execute. Works in club football because you have sides that can't got for 80 minutes, that make mistakes and have clear weaknesses. You don't get that at Origin level.
The Blues also struggle when they try to use Yeo as a middle pass distributor. He didn't play that style last year with Moses. Cam Murray played fast and direct, and Moses likes to get into first receiver a lot more, meaning he can use his speed as a threat. Having Yeo act as a middle ball distributor cuts down time for his outside men and halves. Queensland took advantage in those last 2 games.
I know a lot of people point to Cleary's 2023 grand final performance as proof he performs from behind. What isn't mentioned is how Brisbane completely fell apart. If you look at the stats, Penrith didn't change anything across the 80 minutes. You can pretty evenly divide their metres, tackles and time of possession evenly across the game's 4 quarters. But Brisbane were red lining right after half time and then had a dramatic drop off in metres, tackle completion and possession. Cleary took advantage of a completely exhausted opponent. Again, you don't get that at Origin level.
I saw in the lead up to this game that some "experts" were saying Cleary was level with Johns at Origin level. Cleary is closer to Mitch Pearce. In fact, Pearce has won a decider. But the argument was that Cleary has won 4 Origin series. 1 behind Johns. Except Cleary has never won a series decider and those 4 series wins include a bunch of series where he didn't play all 3 games.
In real terms, Cleary has won 2 series. 2018 and 2021.
2018: 3 games, won series
2019: 2 games, Pearce halfback in decider, won series
2020: 3 games, lost series
2021: 2 games, won series
2022: 3 games, lost series
2023: 1 game (lost), lost series
2024: 0 games
2025: 3 games, lost series
And in 2018/19 when Fittler won back to back series, the game plan was basically field a backline of freakish fullbacks and give them the ball. Didn't have to be a brilliant halfback to give Turbo and Latrell the ball and let them do their thing. 2021 was NRL on steroids and once NSW got a roll on there was no stopping them.
As soon as things evened out again Queensland were matching it with NSW.
I just don't think its that simple Super. You can make statistics tell lots of stories. My intuitiveness says those games were not always that easily presented.
2025 Game 1 Cleary and Moses....a win for the combination. I didn't think Moses did anything in that game that made a difference. There's rhetoric that Moses kicking pinned them on the backfoot. Watch the game again, it didn't happen. Moses as a right side player will never compliment Cleary. Its not harsh just a simple fact of balance.
Moses in the right circumstances is the natural replacement (back up) for Cleary. If Cleary is the half Luai and Burton are the obvious 5/8's, doesn't matter which one. Like wise if Moses is the half those same two, take your choice.
Shane said: "The reason QLD won was in the first game NSW won off the back of aggressive defense, game three QLD done what NSW did in game one and the forwards didn't turn up for NSW or most of the other players in these games you have to get in the oppositions face with aggressive defense, QLD did and NSW didn't which stops the halfs effectiveness."
Poppa said: what he just said.
Daz said :Who could look at games 2 and 3 this year and conclude anything other than Cleary was a misfiring passenger for most of those two games?
Poppa said: I could!!! Its bloody easy!
The reason QLD won was in the first game NSW won off the back of aggressive defense, game three QLD done what NSW did in game one and the forwards didn't turn up for NSW or most of the other players in these games you have to get in the oppersitions face with aggressive defense, QLD did and NSW didn't which stops the halfs effectiveness.
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