This blog expands on some pathways and development issues raised in Hoe's Pezet blog through a brief dialogue between Angry, HOE and NOS.
In principle, it revolves around holding juniors back from first grade, which, in essence, is what the Pezet deal does as the "bridging players," a stop-gap before the rookies and juniors are ready.
It raises obvious questions. Should we be developing players more through first grade than we are? Why is Parramatta stuck in the concept of longer-term development in the minor grades, specifically Reserve Grade NSW Cup?
In principle, I support the “you are ready when you’re good enough” theme supported by the likes of Angry and LB; rather than holding back players from first grade experience.
We’ve seen plenty of players leave for that "blocked pathway" reason: Sanders, Talagi, Stefano. Pezet, ironically, is also a case in point.
Image: Papali’i (above), 21, played 13 first-grade games (4 at five-eighth, 4 at fullback and the rest off the bench, wing, or rake).
What is Joash Papali’i’s future, now?
He was the post-Dylan “Future is Now” project and beat Hawkins for the six, who subsequently left on account of falling further down the first-grade pecking order.
Although Papali’i is a work in progress, he has proven he’s up to the task and probably could do with more development work at first grade. Playing against better players will make him a better player.
He certainly missed a mountain of less tackles than Boy Wonder, Blaize Talagi who misses 6-10 per game recently, and was a weak-link on Panthers' vulnerable left-edge that was part of their undoing this year.
But what is Papali’i's future role moving forward after he was supposedly the ‘six in the making,’ albeit a work in progress? Back in reserves to hone his playmaking skills? Then what of Lorenzo, another budding six? Or is he being groomed as a Wishardian utility: jack of all trades, master of none?
How far back is Lorenzo?
And if Papali’i isn’t ready for Ryles’ ideal vision for six moving forward, will Lorenzo be given a go sometime this year, or held back? A point made by Angry et al.
The curious thing is you’d think Papali’i is more “ready” having had a fair crack at first grade.
Image: Lorenzo Talataina (19), a skillful ball-runner, seen as a potential long-term NRL six but not yet ready — debuting at Cup level in August 2025. He’s extended on an NRL development squad for 26-27 before an NRL contract in 2028. We may see tidbits of him at NRL (26-27) if Ryles sees he’s ready.
Mental and Physical Maturity, yes, but...
Now let’s assume the physicality aspect is addressed: It’s a good point that Hoe and Nos make with regard to mental maturity.
On that, Hayne was handled badly! He needed a senior player to mentor him off the field. We’ve seen Reece Walsh in recent years in a similar bracket. Walsh, for all intents and purposes, as an early starter, has only now learnt the maturity required.
So back to the thrust of me writing this post, with regard to young players and their development.
Reserve Grade football no longer provides a healthy background for development unless you have the right process, structure, and coaching.
Parramatta’s record in Reserve Grade has been atrocious (this year past being an exception with some green shoots). Cayless may have learnt something, though I have previously not had any respect for his coaching ability. I do accept, just the same, that everybody with a depth of intelligence can improve and correct errors. We will see in the next 12 months whether Cayless is that (learnt-by-experience) person.
Too many people here seem to think there is a necessity for players to experience Reserve Grade before being ready for FG.
That may be the case with clubs like Penrith, who have proven that necessity somewhat. They didn’t hesitate to put Casey McLean straight into first grade... first lesson... if you are good enough, you will just teach them bad habits playing with numb nuts in Reserve Grade.
Parramatta being a basket case with little vision (up until now) is an example, and in my opinion, the reason we have not brought juniors through proportionate to our overall junior base.
So to reinforce the theory of developing through Reserve Grade is, in my opinion, a subjective exercise, and one we (Parra) need to spend a lot more effort on in our pathways.
It seems we can get them through JF and Ball etc., but the real results need to be written in Reserve Grade.
These comments leave plenty of room for discussion, and I have not presented any “how to do this” exercise.
Replies
Great blog & interesting comments here, Pops.
I definitely wasn't disagreeing with you, it's just one of those areas where the coaching staff have so much deeper insight on when players are truly ready?
We see their talent, but we do not know the player & personality?
Young players stepping into grade are targetted - physically & verbally - and ripped apart for errors / mistakes.
Their mental capacity and developing ability to handle those fires differs from player to player, person to person.
As I say I don't disagree with you, but for the Eels specifically, before Pezet-Gate, if we were to debut Lorenzo in Round 1, would that be because he is truly ready to handle the physical & mental task of first grade, or would it be because we lost our 5/8th & we needed a replacement?
The 'why' is so important here, imo.
Joash is different of course, he's played some first grade & held his own. I almost feel they are two seperate conversations.
Great blog Pops, keep em coming.
Reserve grade can serve a club in four ways in the transition of players to first grade.
1:Help players adjust physically to the rigours of first grade coming out of junior football which in my opinion is a too big a emphasis.
Outside backs can be eased into grade with less emphasis on the physicality more on technique.
Forwards that tend to do well transitioning into grade are either technically sound or very aggressive defenders rarely both.
2:Mentally, ready to handle the pressure that comes with first grade and the scrutiny that follows.
Which is why a lot of us have spoken on here before about recruiting the right players when it comes to character , values and intelligence.
3:Talent, our biggest problem recently is losing young players with pathways that are blocked.
If we believe in the young talent we need to expose them to first grade from the bench to gain confidence or loan them out on deals that favour the club moving forward.
Half our reserve grade squad should be able to fill in at a first grade level for a handful of games but these players need to stand out in a reserve grade environment.
4: systems, the single biggest benefit reserve grade offers is the defensive systems required to be a part of the first grade unit.
like you Pops I'm a believer if your good enough your old enough.
Reserve grade is but a waiting room of opportunity, the players that become solid first graders don't visit for long it's both a negative for progression at your current club but your seen by other franchises as a negative in recruitment if you've failed to progress out of reserve grade quick enough, the caveat here being members of the spine who will generally find it harder to break into first grade at an infinitely younger age , hookers and halves particularly given how clubs view players of this ilk at their best nearing 30.
Its why spine reserve graders are given more time to develop , Its easier to bring a fullback , hooker , 5/8 into the 14 role then a traditional 7.
Its why I'm a big believer of a 6 man bench , allowing a club to use two players who earlier played reserve grade.
It would allow a seamless development of young players if you could bring them on for garbage time or cater for HIAs but more importantly the NRL which has issues with a talent spread of halves across its competition more avenues to develop first grade standard halves with more first grade exposure.
Great post, Bup.
Nos and Bup, and a lot of others for that matter, I am just nodding and agreeing with the conversation.
One thing I will stand by though is the subjectivity of opinions...... who is right, who is wrong and who doesn't have the requisite slills in communication to bring a young player through.
I am going to use Blaize Talagi as an example, many of us saw his flaws and believed him to be overated.
Subjectively he was polarised as to opinions about his ability and also his value.
Parra used him badly, he was never going to be a fullback, apparently to make him a succesor to Gutho, we then tried to make him a centre and then a winger. We had Moses/Brown as the estblished so we were desperate to use the perception of his skils. what were they .......he runs a great line and has very good hands....negatives were his appalling defence.....we did everything but shoot him in the foot.
Now an example of a player plan was brilliantly executed by the Cleary's.
They moddle coddled him, protected him and he continued to look like a classy 5/8 going places, the media loved him and his defensive errors was overlooked. The subjectiveness hasn't changed but I suspect his defence will be overhauled in the preseason and the finished product could emerge as something special.
The discussion that emanates was did the Cleary's know what they had, or once his deficiences were discovered/accepted they then stepped into the breach.
Can you now see the subjectiveness of the directions taken.....how would he have gone through Reserve Grade and how important was the first grade experience.....the assumption like some have said in thois thread is if he is good enough he plays.....I can only assume the Cleary's said he is.
Bup, Love the 6-man bench idea.
Spine debutants
18-19: N Cleary (18), Walsh (18) Ponga (18) Dylan (18), Sam Walker (18), Galvin, TDS (18) Isaiya Katoa (19), Brooks (19), Strange (19)
20-23: Moses (19, almost 20), Ash Taylor (20), Tim Smith (20), Trindall (20, almost 21), Sexton (20), Johnson (20), Humpreys (20s), Trindall (20, almost 21), Api (21), Cambell (21), Reynolds (21), DCE (22), Luai (22), Metcalf (22), Hawkins (22), Fogarty (23), Hynes (23),
Pap is turned 21 a few months ago so he's still got plenty of time. But what's his role? Utility?
It's not a fixed rule.
Sometimes it's also the fit with the first-grade team is and it's harder for rookies coming into losing team (Galvin 18, Talagi 19).
Some burn out (Taylor, Smith, 20) under the weight of expecation or mental reasons.
Jordan Rankin (16yo, 08) has point. He reckons it's a lot tougher these "social media" Digital days for debutants than in his days; more expectations and scrutiny. The 17yo debutants (Lolo, Foran, Fittler, Sterlos) we may romanticize to embody the "good enough, old enough" were all pre-2015 rule change (except for Suaalii who was almost 18).
I probably didn't articulate the point I was trying to make with younger spine members , I'm all for giving them a shot earlier.
I encourage it,clubs will often invest more time in developing their younger spine, they'll hang on to them a little longer until they either step up or they get to 22/23 .
Its then the player is looking for more game time or for salary cap reasons it's more prudent for your top 30 to opt for a younger kid if the player hasn't shown enough and the incumbent is still at the club.
With Papali it's a hard one , I've mentioned before he likes to sweep into a backline when ball playing which is what you don't want a lot from a 5/8.
I can't have him as a 14 because Smith and TDS are both needed in the 17.
Can he develop into a 5/8 , I hope so but it won't be easy .
I haven't seen him create space playing direct which is a concern.
Hes a really good kid who to me is an out and out fullback , I hope we don't stuff his career turning him into something he's not.
If we had a creative dummy half that played 80 minutes you could stick with Joash at 5/8 and hopefully excellerate the learning curve by having him run first.
All you'd want him to do is run between defenders if the b defender turns his shoulder in give it to your centre or backrower if not put on the afterburners.
Simple and make your tackles.
Develop ball playing subilties later.
If it's me looking after the roster I'd prefer a physically strong 5/8 who loves to play straight and can easily play centre if I'm complimenting what we already have roster wise.
With Iongi out the back and the running game from TDS and the ball playing of Walker it's a strong ball runner at 5/8 which would most suit.
Both hookers in the offseason need to work on their kicking games
-
1
-
2
-
3
-
4
-
5
of 5 Next