Russia Invades Ukraine Discussion Thread -

Thought i'd make a thread on such an important world event, this is the type of thing people should be able to discuss and probably need to discuss.

First off id like to pay my respects to the 13 hero Ukraine soldiers on the Ukraine island, Snake island.

These brave soldiers told a Russian warship to 'go fuck yourself' when ordered to drop arms and hand the island over, knowing full well it would mean their deaths.

All the power to the people of the Ukraine, the families and soldiers.

Blessings to the soldiers and familiess on both sides who are just doing what they are ordered to do.

How big is this conflict going to get?

Whats your thoughts on it?

You got any dogs in the fight?

For all the harsh rhetoric, so-called united-West, the aid, and sanctions - Ukraine is left to fight alone.

The NATO pretext was always a redirection for anti-US, anti-West sentiment. He would be laughing at NATO & the UN: toothless tigers. Russia is even the head of the UN security council. That's almost criminal.

Bottom line, Putin admits he has never accepted Ukraine's sovereignty: it's part of Russia for him, and was unjustly taken away. So, now he's launching missiles and killing Ukrainians to "denazify" it. Before it was the West's fault & NATO. In 2000, Putin said:

“Russia is a part of European culture. Therefore, it is with difficulty that I imagine NATO as an enemy (2000)."

We tend to overlook the fact Ukraine was a NATO partner from circa 1991 after its independence. So, why did Putin wait so long for the NATO hopeful before invading Ukraine in late March 2014 and annexing Crimea?

It was practically on the day Ukraine signed the EU deal in March 2014 moving them closer to the EU - in lieu of Putin's 15b deal thrown aside. All of which happened right after the Ukrainian Euromaiden protests from late 2013 to force Ukraine to sign the EU deal. This would have incensed Putin considering Ukraine ousted the former Ukraine pro_Russian PM at the time (who had already knocked back the EU deal and accepted Putin's).

So, Putin was facing a belligerent Ukraine, independent, moving towards EU, towards NATO, and away from Russia. It also helps Ukraine has strategic and economic benefit for Russia - as a "shield" to the EU with an abundance resources such as oil, agriculture, iron ore, coal and so on. Plus, Crimea has a Russian military base facing the Black Sea.

Putin says Ukraine is "One People" with Russia. Does this remind you in any way of Hitler's "One Blood" or Xi's "One Country"? All three are similar: with claims on the land of other soverignties, as rightfully theirs, to destabilize allies (unsuccessfully) and to return their nation to its glory years. And all three are willing to unleash sociopathic hell on anyone who stands in their way. NATO, US, EU, UK, anyone. Interfere, and Putin says he will use nukes. And a nuclear winter could be the end of many of us.

What's irks Ukraine even today some 30 years later is that during 1991-1994 it gave up its arms, missiles and nukes (Lisbon agreement) - and sacrificed its security and defence - in exchange for Russia's promise to respect Ukraine's sovereignty and security (Budapest Memorandum).

Back in May, 1995 in the Krelim, Yeltsin even said: “Russia will give every state that wants to join NATO a guarantee that we won't infringe on its security”. Clinton: "They trust you, Boris. But they are not so sure what's going to happen in Russia if you're not around." Prophetic words from a controversial figure, blamed by some academics such as Chomsky for restarting the Cold War.

Perhaps, NATO needs to be disbanded with the First Cold War and Warsaw Pact over and to quell a fearful, paranoid Russia that someone like Putin can use for his political purposes. Perhaps, a new Euro alliance is needed to ensure its purpose is formally recognized, but one that still presents an undivided and united Euro region where everyone respects each other's borders and sovereignty - and one that still invokes article 5 - one for all and all for one. Because Putin has proved the world still needs it. And maybe after Putin is gone, Russia could join.

But first Putin needs to go - by whatever means necessary.

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Replies

Poppa February 25, 2022 at 4:30pm

Finland Boarder in 1939.... over 100000 Russian Troops ready to invade.....On the Finland side one Finnish trooper says to his mate, we are such a little country........where are we going to bury them all!

True quote Quora Encyclopedia
Wile E. Coyote February 25, 2022 at 4:38pm

Go the Blue and Yellow

With no real help they do not stand much of a chance. Russia tested the water and confirmed no one would help. They will keep going and take it all.
Hell On Eels February 25, 2022 at 6:55pm

For all the harsh rhetoric, so-called united-West, the aid, and sanctions - Ukraine is left to fight alone.

The NATO pretext was always a redirection for anti-US, anti-West sentiment. He would be laughing at NATO & the UN: toothless tigers. Russia is even the head of the UN security council. That's almost criminal.

Bottom line, Putin admits he has never accepted Ukraine's sovereignty: it's part of Russia for him, and was unjustly taken away. So, now he's launching missiles and killing Ukrainians to "denazify" it. Before it was the West's fault & NATO. In 2000, Putin said:

“Russia is a part of European culture. Therefore, it is with difficulty that I imagine NATO as an enemy (2000)."

We tend to overlook the fact Ukraine was a NATO partner from circa 1991 after its independence. So, why did Putin wait so long for the NATO hopeful before invading Ukraine in late March 2014 and annexing Crimea?

It was practically on the day Ukraine signed the EU deal in March 2014 moving them closer to the EU - in lieu of Putin's 15b deal thrown aside. All of which happened right after the Ukrainian Euromaiden protests from late 2013 to force Ukraine to sign the EU deal. This would have incensed Putin considering Ukraine ousted the former Ukraine pro_Russian PM at the time (who had already knocked back the EU deal and accepted Putin's).

So, Putin was facing a belligerent Ukraine, independent, moving towards EU, towards NATO, and away from Russia. It also helps Ukraine has strategic and economic benefit for Russia - as a "shield" to the EU with an abundance resources such as oil, agriculture, iron ore, coal and so on. Plus, Crimea has a Russian military base facing the Black Sea.

Putin says Ukraine is "One People" with Russia. Does this remind you in any way of Hitler's "One Blood" or Xi's "One Country"? All three are similar: with claims on the land of other soverignties, as rightfully theirs, to destabilize allies (unsuccessfully) and to return their nation to its glory years. And all three are willing to unleash sociopathic hell on anyone who stands in their way. NATO, US, EU, UK, anyone. Interfere, and Putin says he will use nukes. And a nuclear winter could be the end of many of us.

What's irks Ukraine even today some 30 years later is that during 1991-1994 it gave up its arms, missiles and nukes (Lisbon agreement) - and sacrificed its security and defence - in exchange for Russia's promise to respect Ukraine's sovereignty and security (Budapest Memorandum).

Back in May, 1995 in the Krelim, Yeltsin even said: “Russia will give every state that wants to join NATO a guarantee that we won't infringe on its security”. Clinton: "They trust you, Boris. But they are not so sure what's going to happen in Russia if you're not around." Prophetic words from a controversial figure, blamed by some academics such as Chomsky for restarting the Cold War.

Perhaps, NATO needs to be disbanded with the First Cold War and Warsaw Pact over and to quell a fearful, paranoid Russia that someone like Putin can use for his political purposes. Perhaps, a new Euro alliance is needed to ensure its purpose is formally recognized, but one that still presents an undivided and united Euro region where everyone respects each other's borders and sovereignty - and one that still invokes article 5 - one for all and all for one. Because Putin has proved the world still needs it. And maybe after Putin is gone, Russia could join.

But first Putin needs to go - by whatever means necessary.
- Brett Allen > Hell On Eels February 26, 2022 at 8:26pm
  
  NATO has been a defence pact in search of a purpose since the wall came down. It failed both Ukraine & Belarus by giving into Yeltsin's demands after the collapse of the Soviet Union, it failed horribly, no criminally, during the Balkan wars, and it's indifference to the endless civil wars in it's former African colonies is just disgraceful.
  
  Is it any wonder Donald Trump wanted the US to stop underwriting this useless organization ?
  
  The reality is that Western Europe is only really interested in its own interests, especially France & Germany, and they ride roughshod over any other sovereign nation within the EU that tries to stand up to them.
  - Mitchy > Brett Allen February 27, 2022 at 6:16am
    
    Brett Allen couldn't have said it better Brett. NATO are a pathetic waste of $$$ and always have been.
    
    I recall Rwanda civil war and the hundreds of thousands slaughtered / butchered and no one gave a toss.
    
    Trump was always spot on about stopping to underwrite these thieves.
  - Hell On Eels > Brett Allen February 27, 2022 at 5:35pm
    
    Brett, the West has failed Ukraine. Ukraine is an independent sovereignty & a NATO partner from 1991 - that Russia promised they would not threaten in 1994. Ukraine signed a EU deal to move closer to the EU in 2014. They are a UNSC member. Our security structures have failed to protect them.
    
    And although this may seem paranoid Zelenskiy hasn't tweeted for 10 hours. Very uncharacteristic of him. He's usually updating everyone regularly every hour or so. It's got me concerned.
    
    What a hero he is. Probably shows great leaders don't need to be experienced, career politicians.
- don robinson > Hell On Eels March 10, 2022 at 7:33pm
  
  Yeah, I guess NATO is looking at its own interests in no entering Ukraine. Russia has told them that for NATO to enter Ukraine will bring atomic warfare. So ,who wants to get nuked?
My Bob February 25, 2022 at 7:31pm

Remember, this is Putin and his lackies. This is not the Russian people.

They just don't assassinate Presidents the way they used to. Why can't the CIA do what it has done before & save many lives, just un-alive this bloke.
- Brett Allen > My Bob February 26, 2022 at 7:37pm
  
  Don't underestimate the Russian people, particularly the old Bolsheviks MB. They, like the Chinese, like Mother Russia to be seen as a superpower and to be respected accordingly.
  - Snakey - Sack Dylan Brown > Brett Allen March 1, 2022 at 7:05pm
    
    Spot on Brett, the western medias making out theres no support, but theres plenty.