One of the things that makes me wonder about the constant call from many on this this site is that as soon as a rumour or media article hits the stands there is a call to sign them, often over the hill or around a step away from that, or some youngun's that have shown some great form at another club that is often doing well or rumoured to be wanting out? This is especially so when it comes to forwards.
A lot has gone on regarding the signings of Has Beens. Many saw that in the signing of RCG, but his age and how he has come back from fairly serious injuries places him in the area that he still has good years ahead of him without injury, but that applies to any player of any age, a test or rookie player.
The Has Been. There's been a lot of talk about JWH being shown the door at the chooks, with many on this site jump up and down about him, sign him up, gives us power in the forwards, just what we need to be a force and all. Seriously? I watched the game against Tonga the other night, and what I saw was an awesome game of RL, it was hard from each side, would have loved to had a team sheet for the players, especially the Tongan ones. NZ was not awful but very much dominated by the other side, I took a particular note of JWH and there were quite a few times where he stood to the side and let the opposition player run past. His runs were ok at times but he was well contained by the Tongans and did not have the impact that he has shown early this season and years past, or was hejust tired from the GF win? I would think that any RL player who is chosen to represent his country of birth or one that he associates himself with would really lift.
In the game he also sailed very close to the wind regarding some of his tackles and niggles and with him turning 31 in January next year, his record with the judiciary even though he got off with one so he could still play in the GF, is a huge risk as to what real value he would be to the eels, yep experience forward leader and the like, but a wrong tackle or something that could see him out with another broken arm puts him as a no thanks as a recruit for mine.
Young players. David Fifita, 20 next February, Jai Arrow turns 24 this year are two that come off contract end of next year Fifita in particular has shown some great form, but over the season by how much? he has great confidence as a player, has played 35 NRL games for the mules and 9 different rep games, which tells us a lot about him, he has ideal size and weight for a prop but also is a hard man as 2nd rower. Would be a big gain in many ways but at what price? He has not really had any injuries (that I am aware of) except his current eye socket injury which has ruled him out. Given all the present indications he certainly is a player of the future, but at what price? Chase with open cheque book or open a bank for him
Jai Arrow is another but he's not getting the same level of publicity as David Fifiita is, I have not really seen much of him to make any real call or opinion on him, but his age is ok, he is captain of the Titans and plays lock or 2nd row, having lost 3 second rowers he could be a handy signing but, once again there are big dollars beinb bandied around for him.
Reason in some ways for this blog is that, a lot is aimed at the ends of each of the age grroups of players, and the need for the eels to replace 3 players who have retired or left, I honestly cannot see us being in the ring for Fifita, maybe the same with Arrow owing to his asking price already. Even the tidbits on Matterson seem to show he is now on the high price range, I have indicated already regarding JWH though. So where do we go for replacements? & I would like to see some of the younger brigade from our own backyard brought up and given the same chances that the likes of Fifita and others have gotten at their clubs, one of whom is not mentioned as they have contracts with their club Haas.
Not being able to see the Wenty games except when on the box, I throw these names up as candidates to be given a chance to show what they have and perhaps the aspect that may be options for us next year.
Stefano Utoikamanu. I have seen him play in two TV matches, turning 20 next May is a big unit and needs to be in better condition, and able to play longer minutes, I looked up via the NSRL web site his stats, and they show up quite well, baring hin mind his youth age and basic inexperience, no NRL game time, although he's been named on the extended bench a couple of times. Stats can be found here on his 2019 season https://www.nswrl.com.au/players/nsw-cup/wentworthville-magpies/stefano-utoikamanu/
Salesi Fainga'a. A player who seems to be off the radar and not much heard of these days, at least for me, but for this season just gone he is listed as a development player along with Stefano and Ethan Parry, few details and game stats on him here https://www.nswrl.com.au/players/nsw-cup/wentworthville-magpies/salesi-faingaa/
Finally lets not forget that at least two other young players have had time in the NRL squad, Marata Niukore & Oregon Kaufusi. Marata is the elder statesman of the two turns 24 mid next season but really showed his worth this past season so I expect him to be pretty much a regular next year if an import does not take his spot. Oregon, has not had the time in the top grade but he is a player that has shown his worth even at a young age
I believe out of those players that have been on the development list and the other two that have limited NRL time, should be able to perform for the club and team if given the opportunities.
Replies
Blue Eel. I am not saying that we should not be looking at players only from within the local nursery or whatever we want to call it. I have no issues with imported players, providing they are good ones, as one only has to look at the Eels squad for this year, also the one recruit already made for next in RCG plus Waa Black and Fergo, in fact if we look across the team as a whole this year, where MM comes from the jnr comp, In fact with the exception of MM all the nrl backs were from outside the local comp
Go to the forwards and its not much better, with only Mannah before getting off side with the ??? then there is Stefano and Jnr who we had to prize back from Canberra. The way the juniors are now programed is that they are no longer just players who come from within the PRL district, but many are brought in after being seen by talent scouts, and that's been the case for years now.
In fact if we were to really look at our players and Juniors who are playing in the NRL, I would say Manly is likely to have more of their own than the eels. Looking at those I have named who are on the development squad which is the primary target area I am mentioning but there is likely more as well, there is Stefano, as the only one who is a true local, Salesi is a close neighbour who comes from Campbeltown.
In the end, we have some young players & as I mention in the post, of the same age as those being chased who have not been given a run in the top side yet could be just as good as those that are being chased, we could lose someone better by not picking them, one only has to look in other clubs teams to see players from the eels nursery and its been going on for years now that were not see as being of NRL standard and let go.
sorry Col i dont know what happened to my posts - Ï'm sure ive stuffed them up somehow"I wasnt aiming it at you, i was just using the opposite as it also fairs well as your argument, thats why i think we should get the players from where ever, if they fit our budget and our club as well mate. I am not concerned where we get the players from as long as they are better then whom they are replacing.
1 thing though i dont feel the same as you in regards to "not given a run in the top side yet could be just as good" The way we are set up now is that the reserves or juniors get plenty of oppurtunity to shine against inferior players / lower standard competions and dont really shine or excel there, and are let go. Others you can see have potential, but they must improve on that potential and produce consistently to earn their shot at first grade. I think when the rerves come back from Wenty under the Parramatta banner this year, the young ones/ reserves will get a lot more exposure to the first grade side. At least at training etc.
I watched a lot of Wenty live this year and really apart from a couple of forwards that have potential ör already first grade experienced" , i didnt leave the games super impressed with any of the players. Non really appeared to be knocking the door down so to speak. Even Stone has a lot to learn and went missing a lot when playing for wenty.
Blue Eel. The set up how it is now is my primary concern, as I have mentioned we have very few local players in the side, I think there are more playing elsewhere than at the eels in a lot of cases, why have these players gotten contractes elsewhere and not at the eels? Being honest this is not a new phenomina but goes back a fair way overall.
I could never understand the way the NRL and NSWRL stuffed up the general competitions and only having one primary team in the primary comp that being the NRL. For the eels to have amalgamated with Wenty was not a good move in any way shape or form, I have read some really good articles on this and its been highlighted on TCT and rightfully so, the eels players out of the NRL team go back to Wenty, they train with the eels NRL squad in Eels gear then have a day or something training in an old style Wests/Wenty Magpies outfits and playing gear, to me that has a mind affect on players, I have seen it with Newtown and the NRL players there, some go well others are strictly Newtown same as with Wenty, players if it wasn't for the eels players where would they be?
I watched the Reserve grade Grand Final, where we lost, I then had a look at the Wenty team, on the NSWRL webb site, they do not show the eels players in the team, only those who are seen as Wenty players, two classes of players trying to put in with each other and it does not fit. In that game the commentators mentioned that with the eels fielding their own team next year, Wenty will not be fielding a team in the reserves. even there that's a backwards step for mine.
If Ray Stone is not playing that great, then it tells me that the mix of two clubs does not work, I have seen early in the year a couple of players that went great, yet never saw them after a few rounds. My belief is that an eels contracted player, or development player, training and playing with another team is very much a put down, especially when that team/club does not have a great history, They play and train not as eels reserves but as Wenty prop ups which I think affects them in their minds.
I have no issues in the aspect of having players from other clubs or whatever, as can be seen with those contracted for next year, the imports far outnumber the locals, and if they bring home a trophy will be great, and as I said before our first trophy had a fair number of imports in the eels uniforms. All I am looking at is for players within the eels system be given a fair chance to show their abilities and as I replied to John Eel, in the end of year matches except the last one what did Tepai offer the team in his short minutes, also Peni was little used and no impact, one of either 2 players from Wenty would have loved the chance to play, Kafusi, Stefano, one has NRL experience and played well enough while the other one is a pure rookie, should easily handled to 10-15 minutes required, give each a chance if that had not happened with Lane with his shopping around, where would he be? Same with Ma'u given a chance and grabbed it.
Unfortunately your right Col when you mention our system, the problem we have had since the 70's is that we normally had a huge nursery of youngsters, however they get poached by other clubs that have little to no juniors, or just want to bolster their club and take a short cut.. Some are let go due to inconsistant performance or application and then use that rejection as motivation or as the kick up the arse they needed at another club. It has completely changed these days, look at that Kid "Greg Inglis Nephew" Ulysses Roberts. Inglis advised Roberts to sign with Parramatta, a kid with all the skills at 15 years old. Parra signed him in 2016 to a three year deal. Guess what, the kid can probably make it in the NRL, the eels wanted to keep him after paying his way and signing him for the last 3 years. But Nope noiw that he is almost 19, the Rabbits swoop in offer more and the chance to be coached under uncle Greg and bang he is gone just like that. Its this type of thing that needs sorting. Parra spend the money on a kid for three years, just as he is about to be eligible for Senior footy , he is stolen with promises of playing for the green and red. Now that kid has taken the place of another Parra junior for the last 3 years that could of made it. Not only that but how does parra replace that 18 year old that has 3 years development under our system, and was earmarked to play in the blue and gold. We have essentially wasted our money on him, not to mention our hopes and plans etc. He is only one but player and who knows if he kicks on to become a superstar or a has been.
Another thing is that Inglis saw Parras junior system as so strong and so good "in his eyes"that he directed his own nephew to parra. Interesting hey.
BE, thing is there is no perfect set up, and to sign a young player as you have indicated here and then get shafted is something that is beyond the club and what they can control.
I have read somewhere that the NRL have introduced a new set up for junior development in the area of contracts, cannot remember full details but its been put in place to try and reduce this sort of thing.
We will never illiminate the aspect of losing quality players we have developed as opposing clubs all have spotters out there and usually more money than the eels, a good case point is eels junior Sean Keppie who was looked after well by the eels but Manly came in under the eels and signed him to a development contract until end of next season, the offer was too good to refuse and we should have been able to keep him.
My big hope though is that with the move to Kellyvile along with the eels going by themselves in the reserve comp, we can have better control of who to keep and who not.
Colin nice piece.
Of all the players that you mentioned on here plus players like Matterson and Frizell and any others that have been mentioned recently, The only player that I believe you would make a big offer to would be Fifita.
The other issue is the long term contracts. If a club offers a long term contract to a player, the club is wearing all of the risk. Not the player.
If a player has a longish contract, 4 years or more the player should be willing to take a haircut on the money. I don’t see any players that you would tie up to a 10 year contract
I also agree with Dr Wong in that we need Origin standard players if we are to make the top four. We have them in the backs but we need a couple more in the forwards.
Juniors are difficult to assess. For instance Faingaa is a player I have seen a lot of and expected big things but he had a lost year in 2019. Utoikamanu looks to be the best of who is coming through at this point
John, l agree with you and with the good Doc and Slugg. What I am basically saying is that why is it that those who are signed in our local system seem to go elsewhere to get an NRL contract?? I am not against imports and when we look back at our first premiership it had quite a few non locals in the team as well.
Yes we need primary players and by looking at & using Fifita as the example, the question to be asked if he was part of the eels system would have have debuted at age 18/19?
I have seen in the past and will continue to see it at the eels where we have young players with big potential walk away because they are not given the chance in the NRL squad. Stefano should have been given a run, but as I have not seen Salesi, I can't make a call on him, but he's young enough and old enough to be given a go, How many of the young players give the game away through the frustration of not bein given a top team run? Surelly with some of the injuries and at the end of the season they should have been given a run, considering the way a couple of the bench players were performing.
With regard to giving the Development players a run toward the end of the season. What would have been upper most in BA mind would have been a top four finish or home final
Salesi from memory was not in the 17 at Wenty for the finals. Clearly there was a problem there. I had someone tell me on TCT that at the moment he is not up to NRL standard
John, I read where Stefano played 19 games for Wenty and Salesi 15 or 17, when Mannah and Gower were back at Wenty and the full team was available it pushed Salesi out, I think he was the youngest player of the forwards at that point.
If not giving Kafusi, or Stefano a run was his ide of ensuring the top four finish or home final and keeping Tepai on the bench who was absolutely useless, except for the last game where was ok, to me was the coaches biggest mistake, and tops another one or two. Tepai would be flat out based on those end of year games to have made a development squad.
Doc, its a real conundrum one way or another. there is still 7 players including Taka & MJ yet both have been signed according to reports, Hoff is to go back to QLD out of the remaining 4 which includes Terepo, I don't see them getting contracts, Greg Leleisiuao, also listed, interestingly his stats overall seem to be very good, but his defence is a worry. Can we afford to lose the experience of Peni? I think he has peaked and for me would prefer Kafusi or perhaps if an import comes in that will take care of a position.
What makes it hard is the NRL bringing in the minimum number of players in the NRL squad if those 7 are not signed along with those retired, that has the squad at 29 less any of the 7 that go. leaves us light on overall.
I would rule out Fifita coming to the club, if for no other reason than cost and I doubt the eels are in his mind. I would not mind Frizel or Matterson, Frizel is older but not sure if STG would release him and would depend on how long he wants to play for given his age & with Flanagan as assistant coach there he will be wanting him to stay. Matterson would be my pick as he balances well size wise and ability wise with Lane, would depend on how much he would want to play with the eels, if at all. If he did come then I would say with RCG he will fill the out of club spot, meaning the top 13, it then comes to a battle of/for the 4 bench spots.
The aspect with development players is that they can be signed for 2 years, which may be a help or maybe not depending on the players. If, and that's the biggest word in the dictionary, IF the club only resigns MJ and Taka as they have been mentioned as having signed again and the other 5 are shown the door, we will have 24 players who are on contract, then there are the development players, Stefano, Salesi, Dunster and Parry without knowing what their situation will be. As such the club has to have 30 players by July 1 (IIRC) with increments leading up to that date, also the development players can be chosen in the NRL from that date as well, although it could be a bit later than that.
The big balancing act will be at the end of next season where we have 11 players off contract to which I would say at least 2 will not be extended, the others should all be offered new contracts though, but much will depend on form next year.
The aspect of poaching will be always there, how many players were released this year, and retire part way through the year as well? One thing is certain to me and that is if the club want to keep the current development players, they can also bring in others to replace them, thing will depend on length of contract that is offered.
I am of the view that with one good back rower signed from outside, that should make the eels more competitive especially having a full reserve team playing for the eels. That should lift the players as they become more critical to the club and themselves.
Other aspect Doc is that not all of those players you mention in your primary group are eels juniors. Competitive players will strive to go higher and the pressure will be there, the one unknown though with the new system is who will be the reserve grade coach next year? Whoever that is will help shape the team and who will be looked at to be signed up from this years Wenty team to play for the eels side.
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