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"It is a mixture. But saying MON is the reason for Pezet is farcical. Ryles would have wanted it and MON got it done. That is practically MON's job. Same with GM's in other sports. Get an idea of what the coach wants, goes out and gets the best he…"
"Might be a with a new coach. If Brisbane miss the 8 or scrape in i reckon they yeet Madge. It would be ridiculous but can see it happening.
So could have a brand new coach there for him lol."
So could have a brand new coach there for him lol."
"He had great vision to catch Walsh out twice, but man his execution on kicks were woeful, yet fluked a try and try assist. You cannot ever win without some form of luck."
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No team benefits from the draft. The Roosters spend heaps on their junior development, there's a reason why they were in the SG Ball Grand Final this year and came 8th in the Harold Mats as well. They also had the same amount of representatives in the NSW Under 18's team this year (2). They have some of the best players in the 20's this year in Jackson Hastings (St George junior), Jakiel Mariner, Taane Milne, Willis Meehan. They've also recently had Nene Macdonald, Kane Evans, and Dylan Napa come through their system. The Storm also put a bunch of money into developing juniors, it is only more recently that they've started to do this but they are reaping the rewards by paying minimal amount for forwards and backs whilst maintaining Slater, Cronk, and Smith.
In fact I'd say these clubs spend more money on junior development than Parra, Penrith, Newcastle, Brisbane, and New Zealand. It is well known that they just don't have the catchments like the 5 clubs that I have named and as such they have to give out bigger contracts to kids to play in their district rep side. Whereas if a kid has played for Wenty, Cabramatta, Hills, Rouse Hill for most of his footy career and has his mates going into the Parra district reps team he is more likely to side with them, that is of course until money comes into it. It is only until recently (2011) that we've found out why we're not gaining first grade success even though we've had good success in the Harold Matthews competition, and that is because we've relied on thinking that we can rest on what I pointed out earlier that kids will play closer to home rather than play in Bondi. We're starting to give our top players contracts so that they'll stay with us. Just look at a few of our recent debutants and those who are in our NYC and SG Ball teams from this year. Tepai Moeroa, was signed as a 15 year old by Parramatta to play in our district reps team, from the year after we signed him he would have had full attention from other clubs as well as other codes, it took money to keep him here and if we didn't have the right people in the right places we probably would have lost him. Josh Aloiai is a perfect example of us doing a "Roosters" or "Storm" we pinched him from New Zealand and much lie Moeroa if we didn't have the right people in the right places we aren't able to sign him. Same with: Jack Morris, Bevan French, Nifo Seve, and Kadince Christensen.
I do not like the idea of a draft one bit, I don't think it suits any club and by having a district rep team it keeps the juniors involved with an area. I feel that if we let the NRL develop these kids how they want we'll be getting a bunch of very similar players as they will be given the same training and mentoring and they'll know exactly what the opposition is capable of, I also believe it will lend itself to players either getting into the game too late or be exposed too early. If the NRL develops Tepai Moeroa, he probably debuts at 21 rather than 18, if the NRL had developed Bureta Faraimo all those years ago I feel he is lost forever without getting a second chance.
*EDIT* I also believe this will lead to an increase in either High Schools being given more ownership on developing a player, an increase in individual clubs like: Wenty, and Cabramatta trying to get elite training programmes and facilities and unless the NRL want to fork out a lot more money than they are now then this is the way to go. And what I believe is the most important thing in a player's development is what if they don't want to go to a club that drafts them?
A player should have full say in which club they want to go to and what area they want to live in. You could have lived in Blacktown your entire life and then get drafted by Nth QLD or N.Z, or live in Bondi your entire life then get drafted by Penrith.
Really good points raised here Ham - esp about player development. I have no doubt, that if a draft was here now, that clubs certainly would not invest money and resources into junior development - but feel that the NRL would simply "tax" clubs so that resources were still avilable
One thing that you did not consider, is that while at junior level, there are still ambitious coaches and competitions to be won. I do not believe, for one minute, that the NRL has the ability to homogenize NRL juniors.
Sadly, the days of tribalism (for players) have been passed by in favor of large salaries. Simply put, given the choice of a large contract or playing for your local side - Money wins, every time.
We are in the large salary era - and the only way to sustain the growth of the game on a national level - as well as satisfying players contract desires - is through sharing the talent. The salary cap does this - and so too would a draft system
To me - this is a case of NOT if - but WHEN. I cannot see the NRL avoiding a player draft forever. It's simply the times that we are now in
Do I wish that Wests and Norths and Newtown were still in the comp - YES. I couldn't give a damn about Bris, Warriors Melb Necastle and Canberra. I always think the STOLE my favorite thing - the Sydney Rugby League comp....but those days are long gone...........and one day, so too will be the "local junior" argument - as the draft will prove to be a rousing success - if they do it right - like they do in the NFL for example
I'm a Parra fan through and through but will answer your question with a "big picture" view rather than as a Parra fan - there is no doubt that our junior nursery is our biggest asset and I will also explain HOW a draft system actually HELPS not hinders Parramatta
I am an NFL fan and have been following the game, in great detail since 1980. The draft system in the NFL works and makes the overall product - the game on the field - a better game as a result
What many people forget to realise about a draft system is that teams with the best "brains" win. Clubs that invest in talent evaluation are the winners - not clubs, that by proxy, have many talented players to choose from. OK for the TOP 4 or 5 players that are "no brainers" - yes - if one of those is a Parra junior - and it's not our turn to pick - YES - we miss out
Q. Why has so many of Parramatta juniors been signed by opposition clubs and NOT by Parramatta
A. Poor recruitment personnel or another way of looking at this is that other sides have better "talent" evaluators than Parramatta
I DO believe that a properly managed draft system is for the betterment of the NRL. You have to have teams with the hope of winning to sustain interest from fans and sponsors - an annual injection of fresh talent to the most needy teams first makes the most sense and you cannot penalise markets that do not have the juniors to draw from - the game will NEVER sustain itself if you don't look after those teams
Now - look at Brisbane and Nth Qld and to some extent the Warriors - all with much larger talent pools than Parramatta - Parramatta also benefits by having access to these juniors as well as sharing our own
But the big point is that by having a draft system will FORCE Parramatta to finally fix their dreadful history of recruitment. Parramatta's talent evaluators - for years - have been sub standard. The ONLY people to blame when a talented local junior signs with another club (if Parra wanted to keep that guy - but got away) - is Parramatta themselves, The fact that in most cases when a talented junior signs elsewhere - is that Parramatta talent evaluators saw no immediate danger in letting "that kid" go
In the modern age of salary caps - Teams with the BEST Talent evaluators will win - it's about balancing the bringing in of young talent and the offloading of "expensive" talent at the right time - something Parramatta has been historically CRAP at doing - a draft system will actually help Parra - by forcing Parra to FIX their biggest weakness
So - on a local (Parra) and national level - the draft is an absolute MUST for me - because it helps Parra and it sustains our great game
Ham, the roosters and storm are not so much spending on junior development as they are spending on junior recruitment. It benefits them to have access to a draft.
"Now - look at Brisbane and Nth Qld and to some extent the Warriors - all with much larger talent pools than Parramatta - Parramatta also benefits by having access to these juniors as well as sharing our own" We currently have access to these juniors, there is nothing (other than an initial contract) from us offering them a contract and them signing with us, recently we've signed: Jack Morris from Gympie, Lachlan Roe from Ipswich, Connor Broadhurst from Blackwater, Josh Aloiai from New Zealand, Kadince Christensen from New Zealand, and Joey Lussick from Manly just to name a few.
"But the big point is that by having a draft system will FORCE Parramatta to finally fix their dreadful history of recruitment" We fixed that in 2011 and are now seeing the fruits of our labour in the NYC with this being the first year that we're in the top 4 consistently and have a very good chance at winning the comp.
"Teams with the BEST Talent evaluators will win - it's about balancing the bringing in of young talent and the offloading of "expensive" talent at the right time" Exactly, and that's why Parra had a huge overhaul of their thought process into keeping our best talent. It's what made Noel Cleal look so good for many years at Manly, Parra weren't signing up the talent and he knew it was here so he'd just sign Parra juniors. Now that he is at the Dogs and Parra have decided to look after the juniors his junior teams this year have finished near the bottom, currently his NYC team is sitting last with only 2 wins, his SG Ball team finished second last with 0 wins and 2 draws, and the only team of his that did well was the Harold Mats who came 7th.
I also don't believe in punishing a team that does well by giving them the last pick of a round, nor do I believe you should be rewarded for coming last and I think that may lead to tanking by some teams later on in the season if they are no hope of making the 8 and have a chance at coming last. They get the best talent in the development coming through.
No - the draft does not guarantee that Parra will "fix" this deficiency - but it will certainly highlight the need to do so. either way sixtiesboy - you are right - with or without a draft Parra must fix this area
I cannot think of a great analogy other than Santa Claus isn't real. Do you really think that it makes that much difference if Parra had signed - say a Benji Marshall as an 17yo or 18yo prospect without coming through the grades. Do you think Parra fans would NOT adopt him as one of our own - do you think that Benji would NOT play 100% cause he is not a local junior - as he try's to cement a first grade career and then ultimately play in the Reps
Another way of looking at this situation is what and how much "other" clubs are paying for junior recruitment.....and given enough time....how much "overs" will be paid for unproven but talented juniors - - this will NOT be good gor the game, as too many resources will be unnecessarily wasted on speculating - and a draft all but eliminates this type of "cheating"
Yes, sorry, but we are at complete opposite ends of the spectrum here - I see the draft as an absolute MUST - on so many levels
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