Lots of discussion going on about Da Silva and other players and people on this site being concerned about our perceived lack of success .
We need to get over our inferiority complexes and biases. The non thinkers can be like that but sensible people see it exactly the way you do.
The mentality here is similar to a public auction, people bid because they want to win, not the property but the game. They just bought one on the impulse and then miss the one they really wanted because of that impetuous.
In saying that you still have to understand the market which means you need to inspect and understand the nuances of all the properties and who's bidding and stress that process by offering only at prices you are prepared to pay for the value expressed. Da Silva for all intents and purposes is probably worth 300k, rhetoric says he will get 600 (hoping, think Galvin).
If Riley Smith was up for auction, my guess he would pull say 450 from the right club. Whats he worth to us, my guess 350 which I hope is what he is being offered with KPI's and incentives for games played and the potential to get to that 600 number. Very Similar when we lost Mahoney. We weren't going that extra....was that a mistake .....hindsight and rhetoric still has that argument as subjective, Most at the time on here we are against matching the higher price and we lost a few players as a result.
We basically have all agreed on not matching DB's price and that has shown to be the right move given his burnout.
When we see a specific person to either obtain or retain, then we have every right to pay overs and accept the commentary of the critic's, who incidently put prices on anything with no knowledge of the current cap and how it is structured or managed. Why? because it is assumed it suits our agenda!
By all means make observation's and qualify your comments, but it is hard to be critical when you don't know.
Find out first before jumping in. Actully how desperate are we in obtaining Da Silva as against not letting someone else get him on the perception of losing an opportunity (not qualified).
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Over 3 yrs.
If the Eels lost out to Manly, who are willing to pay a reported $650K over 3 years, then I'm OK with that. Personally I haven't seen his potential to warrant that much. I'd be worried if we had offered the kid over $500K.
Given Smith is going well, the big money focus needs to be on quality forwards and outside backs, and of course a 5/8 if there is one out there.
Finally, a blog discussing the behavioural aspects of recruitment and retention. I said ages ago if we want to start being like the good clubs we need to start behaving like it.
I saw Steve Gillis podcast (chiming in) where he had another player agent on as his guest. He said you can tell the moment you have dealings with a well run club. He also said the good clubs don't fuck you around with bullshit tactics. If they aren't interested they tell you as much immediately.
The actually amount isn't the most important thing. It's the amount of years. You want to lock down the best young players for aslong as possible and reap the rewards at the back end. And unfortunately as we have done, you don't want to sign players in their prime for 1-2 seasons too long. Eg Paulo.
The thing about signing Da Silva you'll know what we're are doing around a 6.
If your replacing Brown with an established 6 you don't need Tallyn , Smith doesn't over call his halves , is great defensively , currently lacks a probing running game and doesn't play a full 80 so you'd look at a 14 to give him some cover.
Of you go down the Da Silva path you can afford to develop from within for a 6 or go to market for midrange money.
$2 million for a hooker for three years isn't a lot under a ballooning salary cap especially if that player meets expectations.
Weve afforded ourselves salary cap wise to have some leeway in which way Ryles wants to go, if we get Da Silva it'll tell us.
That comment about moving forward with Joash at 6 suggests we're all in with Da Silva but we'll wait and see.
Either way we need to strengthen our pack.
Well that's the type of discussion I was trying to create Bup.
You have defined it further and that makes for more discourse and that's what I try and establish when I write a blog.
You may say that Smith is not an 80 minute player and I agree with you at this point of time. That said he has aerobically attacked and surpasssed Gutherson's records and that is no mean feat.
WE need a back up regardless but I think that back has to come from the hookers we are developing. I understand there is one or two with great promise.....its also a position we have to recognise burnout and injuries with.
Someone like "Cheese" i would have thought ideal in that as a bench he can play legitimate FG roles as a hooker/or forward.
Any more mobile and lighter weight edges or middles could also be developed down those lines. e.g what happened to Hands to take him off the boil? Burnout or gut busting maybe?
These are things that no doubt go on regularly with the R&R Group as well as the coaching staff......presumably?
My further guess was BA had those things in his head and kept them there. Unquestioned that model has expired, shame he could not evolve with the process from his own point of further development as a coach. I am not sure that tradional thinking has not changed for the whole processing of developing coaches.
Lets look at Hasler, Maguire, Flanagan, even Bennet as examples and the look at the ones that are objectively seeming to change,ie. Stewart, Robinson
Then we go to guys like Payton, Cronulla, Woolf, Marshall, Siebold, Webster.....where do they sit.....
Rookies it seems is Ryles and a myriad of assistant's that have not met the standards Ryles has established.
That leaves us with Bellamey and Cleary as the standouts.
Putting a dollar and or length of deal value on new recruits is heavily based around young talent coming through the junior development systems and when these kids are expected to be ready for 1st grade. There is no point in recruiting a regular 1st grader on decent money for 3 or 4 years if you have a kid playing in the same position with expectations that he will be ready for 1st grade in 12 to 18 months. Doing this will only unsettle the young player being developed and usually results in him looking for an opportunity elsewhere. This is 1 of the reasons why players can be worth such different amounts, both dollars and contract length, to different clubs. A player can be worth $800,000 per season for 5 years too 1 club yet the same player could be worth less than half that to another. The art of juggling, (not only the salary cap throughout your top 30 but also your juniors coming through) is the difference between long-term success and many years of disappointing results. There is nothing worse than watching locally developed juniors flourishing at other clubs. With strong junior development and high expectations of these juniors often will result in a few lean years whilst these players continue their development. Hitting the market place hard can result in better results quickly, but the after effect can be extremely damaging to the juniors you have spent years developing. The key is identifying the weaknesses, not only in your top 30, but also in your junior development systems and recruiting players that will will those holes.
As I am not up to date with the current juniors coming through I rarely get involved in signing news or rumours. It's not as easy as playing supercoach, when recruiting new players and for the right amount plus length of time has so much dependent on the kids coming through your development systems............. Names that majority of fans have never heard of!
Slippery, also good points and your contribution is relevant.
I am posting this at half time in the Tigers/Manly game and all I saw Da Silva doing was wasting the effect a player like Korosu not playing his natural position and the disclocation caused.
It says to me Benji is totally lost. Why is even playing this kid, if everyone knows he wants to leave.
I reckon I can spot a player who has specific skils regardless of how a game is going. I saw nothing in his make up that sees him ripping a side apart from Dummy half. Very quick observation is he is not anywhere near the player Rylie Smith is in their respective formative stages,
It's not unusual for a young player that is in the middle of negotiations or leaving their current club to put in some below par performances. It's easy for fans to get over excited watching players put in an outstanding performance, resulting in extreme hype. I clearly remember the 1st game Luke Brooks played for the Tigers vs St George at the SCG and people saying he was the next Andrew Johns.Even Buster Douglas managed to lift enough to KO the best heavyweight boxer I've ever seen. The same thing can happen the other way. Players with big wraps on them can put in a poor performance. I guess trying to judge the abilities of a player shouldn't be taken from such a small sample size. These young players with high expectations have been watched for many years throughout their development. Not only are things like ability being monitored, but things like work ethics, vision and improvement are closely monitored. As for Da Silva, I definitely haven't seen enough of him to have my own opinion. However, when I hear that 4 plus clubs are interested in his services, I'm confident that they have done all the homework required regarding young Da Silva. When a young player is being chased by several clubs he usually becomes a quality 1st grader. I expect nothing less from Da Silva.
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