What would you think if definitive proof of alien life emerged? Would it consign all religious thought to, as Mark Twain once predicted, the fate of a stuffed ornament in museums? How would suggestive confirmation of the principles of uniformity and plenitude - that if life can form on Earth it can form anywhere and thus will for everywhere - mix with confirmation of the principle of mediocrity (nothing special about humans)? Would mediocrity impact humans relation with technology and would plenitude turn science skyward?
Disclosure Day (2026), Spielberg: https://youtu.be/icDuEHSxE-w?si=jKBowVzx1K6IggNh
Replies
Yep who wears undies on top of his pants just for attention 🤣
The holy books of Judaism, Christianity and Islam describe heavenly realms teeming with angels and demons.
Poupou, angels and demons in religious texts are immaterial, and either a deities messenger or some corrupted spiritual being. Aliens are material.
But let's imagine, say a Christian, wants to respond to aliens rocking up by saying the Bible was actually talking about aliens. They move past the materiality vs spirituality distinction (despite the Bible being replete with talk of non-humans being spirit). in Corinthians, there is a test if some being that might seem other-worldly is from god or not. The being will not forsake god. The being will exalt christ as lord. Personally it's all nonsense in my opinion but that is the test there in Christian scripture. So it would be a serious test for Christianity at least if an alien rocked up and said "Christ who?"
I notice that not too many want to get into the philosophical bent here Daz. I did watch the "road to disclosure" on You Tube in the past 24 hours and found it underwhelming, obviously I have not seen the movie yet but look forward to doing so.
If people understand/stood the radiation type issues that allows life to exist on this planet, they would be more careful than accepting alternatives as a "fait accompli". That said I have no doubt that life exists in various forms all over the universe, but that "do doubt" is still qualifiable by any sceptic.
Fundamentally I am "agnostic" to a point, but comfortable calling myself a spiritist (Kardec) but equally comfortable in the teachings of Jesus (regardlless of his birth status)......my spiritist belief does allow for an evolvement in human spirit into pure energy and that could be a "god like existence" if that pure energy merged into one!
Back to your rationale for bringing this up (should not be in the NRL segment) I can see you are going through your own research theory and as a scientist you will only relate to fact (accepting). My view in the existence of UFO's etc is limited to everthing pointing to a smoking gun but no evidence "sighted by us" to contradict that.
I have some sympathy to a view that we have had past civilisations that have been even self destructed or naturally destructed but again its still only smoking guns.
Love these discussions!
PS "The James Webb" has seriously eroded the current concept of the "big bang" but it still boggles my mind to think, that the light from 15 billion light years away is what we are seeing and the James Webb is looking past that into older visions of the Universe.
Explain to me why science continues to call "universes" in the plural, as my limited thinking is that the Universe is single and as such represents infinity...... leaving aside theories of multi-verses/blackholes ect, that may exist inside it.
Allan Kardec (born Hippolyte Léon Denizard Rivail) is the French educator who founded and codified Spiritism (Espiritismo/Kardecism) in the 19th century. His teachings combine the communication with spirits, reincarnation, and Christian morality into a structured philosophy intended to align faith with reason.
Poppa, plenty of scientists proclaim religious conviction. So my atheism or my bet that alien life exists are a) unrelated, really, but b) science alone won't answer such foundational questions. Or, at least, is insufficient. Science does demand material causation as prime evidence, so for me that helps with atheism, but it's the secularism part that is most dear to my heart. I don't want religious authority near social power.
I am not a cosmologists so not much help with your universe question. We live in a Universe. Universes plural is a neat fictional device to permit loose story telling immune to contradictions (more fantasy than Sci-Fi), but in physics I think of universes as a mathematical device to smooth over gaps in theory and evidence. But science has a fine tradition of instrumentalism in theory. What we now call quarks used to be called strangeness, for instance. Dark matter might go the same way.
The mathematics currently allows for the fact that there could be multiple universes, potentially unlimited numbers of them. Additionally, there are most likely to be at least 14 dimensions in our universe, though we can only detect 4 of them, and no amount of science over the thousands of years has detected more than this. What exists in the other 10 dimensions? We have some insight but can never know through science alone.
There is so much we don't know about the universe, and additionally so much we will never know because it is so vast. We can look at objects far away, but those objects we see today are no longer there as that is what they looked like when light left them billions of years ago. Could there be other intelligent lifeforms? Possibly, but it's also very possible that you need to build an entire universe to get intelligent life on one planet. Our own planet had to have several resets to get to where we are now with dominant mammals, leading to humans. If they didn't happen we wouldn't be here today.
I saw it, went in with no expectatations (and I do follow the topic) and enjoyed it. There are numerous plot holes in there but overall I enjoyed it as a movie. It's not meant for people like me, it's for the uninitiated to at least start thinking about the topic. I think the disclosure movement has passed further than when this movie was made 2 years ago, so for many, it's a bit underwhelming.
There is a lot more than the nuts and bolts and little green men, but that is how they are approaching it as it's the easiest for people to understand. There are many layers to the onion. Jacques Vallee has a very different take on it than most, and from a scientific point of view, the number of sightings are too numerous for the phenomenon to be extraterrestrial, but rather home grown. It all ties into the paranormal, but it's easier to announce it as ET's and craft than the spooky shit from the X-files.
James Lacatski from the DIA (now retired) has confirmed that they recovered a NHI craft, were able to get inside of it and he personally was in it. This was cleared by DOPSR and covered in his book Skinwalkers at the Pentagon. Up until 2017, there was a denial that any of this was real. But that is now pivoted to a slow drip disclosure that it is real, and they don't know what it is. So for me, something external is forcing this, and who knows what that is. It might all be a massive psyop for all I know.
Brinfbacksemi, I've only followed the story you outline through a colleague. He is a believer. Cover up etc. he is otherwise sane so I let him speak his mind about it. He asked me questions which I remind him assume the burden is mine to prove a negative when the burden is his to prove the positive! Recall Hume's principle that a miraculous claim warrants an extremely high degree of evidence.
Sometimes conspiracies are right. Tobacco companies knew their product caused cancer. Merck knew Grunethal was not being truthful about Thalidomide. Just because UFO cover ups is a conspiracy theory, that's insufficient to dismiss it. My question to my colleague, which he has given zero satisfactory answer to, is why these claims are emanating almost exclusively from US mostly military sources? I simply don't trust these US sources. Why are these claims not more widespread? It's almost like the yanks are saying the aliens chose good old u s of stupid a to visit. So I'd love an answer do what I call the "over localization" problem.
PS: I still think alien life exists even if UFO's have not visited
Daz, I like what Carl Sagan said: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". The Sagan Standard seems almost identical to Hume's reasoning.
-
3
-
4
-
5
-
6
-
7
of 7 Next