'Merica: Just how f@#ked is it?

Interesting to hear your take on this Ads being that you'd know better than most what it's like to be in such situations. Keep the watts up and the shoulders down brother - cheers :)

Hey mate how have you been? Windy as hell today, terrible day to be on the bike. Have you watched that Lance Armstrong thingo on foxtel?

Obviously the safety of yourself and your colleagues was foremost in the police. But use of force and duty of care was also right up there.

It's hard to compare Australia to America because here you assume noone has a gun so you can afford to be more relaxed in doing your job. Over there I think it's fair to assume whoever you deal with is probably armed so your mindset would be completely different. That doesn't change the fact that you are still accountable for your actions.

Those officers that deal with riots and crowd crowd control (in QLD it's the public safety response team) don't fuck around. They are pretty heavy handed (and with good reason).

If I was in the press covering a riot I would be wearing a reflectorised vest stating such. If the cops got physical then I think you would have grounds for complaint. Otherwise, occupational hazard.

Well, it is super important to me for the reasons I indicated earlier in this thread, but I'm happy to leave it at that!

That makes alot of sense - and pretty much explains what happened to these reporters and why - thanks mate.

Haven't watched the Armstrong thing yet but I am recording it. I did my biggest ever riding month in May - 1542km's. Now I've got a busted wheel and won't get a replacement till June 25 - good excuse to take it a bit easy and hit the mountain bike for a while :)

Far out that’s crazy, I probably do about 542kms a month.

I'm going to ask this with the utmost respect and in no way meaning to be directed at your wife , family , freinds or you , Bourbs . You've always been one of my fav posters here for many years .

But , as you're very much invested in the current situation of racial tensions in the U.S , and you brought up the topic of immigrants in Australia , I ask this as a generally interested person in your opinion here and not someone having a shot .

why do you think it's only the POC that seem to have issues with racist cops targeting and killing them in the U.S ?

Wiz, its not just POC pissed with racist cops. They're pissed off with a society that has traditionally not treated them equally. I didn't know much about it until I met Theresa but the things she has subsequently told me, shown me has demonstrated an unarguable case that there are two systems that operate over in the US.

I'll give you three quick examples:

When Dylann Roof - that despicable white supremist, shot up the Church in Charleston, South Carolina, kiling 9 black people, upon his arrest police sent out for burgers for him.

This is in contrast to holding a man down to the point that he dies of asphyxiation for the suspected tender of a counterfeit $20 bill to buy cigarettes.

Now, firstly, did the cops do the wrong thing in feeding Roof? No, they acted humanely as their charter decrees, once having taken a suspect into custody. But he killed 9 innocent people!!!

Was George Floyd an entirely innocent man? No. He had a criminal record and, whilst it hasn't been confirmed, probably did tender a counterfeit $20 note - which is hardly the crime of the century and certainly did not deserve death.

Now, you might argue that these are isolated incidents and to conflate them into one argument about mistreatment of POC is crossing a bridge too far. Well, consider the sad tale of Emmett Till only as long ago as 1955. I'll post a link and you can check it out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till

This is something that just does not happen to white people. Certainly not in the USA! And by its very grotesque nature, demonstrates a particular brand of traditional 'justice' reserved for POC.

Finally, and this one is personal - I've told a few folk on here this story:

My wife told me the story of when she got pulled over late at night after driving home from her second job because of a broken tail light. Cop pulled his gun on her whilst asking whether she had drugs or weapons in the car. She had to ask permission to reach into her handbag to show her licence and registration. She has no criminal record, was raised by a loving mother, did well in school, had a good job and owned her own home. And she's the daughter of a cop in Jacksonville, yet she thought she was going to die that night - all because of a broken tail light.

I love my wife and it makes me tear up just thinking about it.

This is something that you or I will never experience. And I'm glad for it!!

But, to hide behind aggregate figures that get parroted by conservative media outlets like Breitbart and Fox News to deny that there is a real problem in the US - not just from police towards POC but towards POC in general, is to be wilfully ignorant.

Finally, is it fair to stereotype members of the black community, or Latinos, based on their perceived proclivity to be involved in criminal activity? Yes and no. Stereotyping is something we all do. But, the difference here is the stereotype that Asians can't drive or that Indians haggle might be bigoted, but rarely involves a fatal misunderstanding.

The stereotype that black people are going to break into your home and steal your shit might be the reason why police officer Amber Guyger broke into Botham Jean's home and shot him dead whilst he was watching TV and eating ice cream.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Botham_Jean

The reality here for me is that, if you came home to find your wife, or your child needlessly slain because of a misunderstanding, or for a petty crime or misdemeanour, your whole world would be turned upside down and you would be furious, distraught, possibly wanting revenge etc. There is no difference as to how black folks feel and it has taken up to this point before the tipping point has finally been reached.

It is not excusable behaviour to riot in the streets nor destroy others' property, but, people are just at their wits end. It is not excusable but perhaps it is understandable.

Bourbs and Hoe thanks for your replies I will read them after work as I'm a bit snowed and just ducked out for a quick Ciggie . HOE I appreciate your links and stats it's great when someone takes the time to counter a debate with factuals .

Bourbs , I look forward to reading yours mate .

in the meantime , I have not fact checked this and just saw it on Facebook ( must be true ) . I think the funniest part of this is he had this stunner and she left him due to his bad publicity . Such an Asian thing to do ( JOKES)

Thanks Wiz, likewise. Nothing like a good debate, mate. I think it's healthy to disagree on things, too and talk about it. You're a very intelligent poster, so it's always a pleasure.

PS: I'm a Aussie-Euro-wog, and also have an Asian wife, a stunner in my eyes, and she has promised to not walk out if I ever get into trouble or we are penniless. Only if there's another woman! So, not all Asians are the same.

Perhaps the word "curfew" menas just that and that is exactly what they have been instructed to enforce? EVERYONE aside from Law Enforcement off the streets! No dount the media have been seen on many instance to be worsening the situation and they just want to shut it down.

Replies

- - - - Kramerica > Adam Magrath June 2, 2020 at 5:53pm
        
        Interesting to hear your take on this Ads being that you'd know better than most what it's like to be in such situations. Keep the watts up and the shoulders down brother - cheers :)
        
        Adam Magrath > Kramerica June 2, 2020 at 6:43pm
        
        Hey mate how have you been? Windy as hell today, terrible day to be on the bike. Have you watched that Lance Armstrong thingo on foxtel?
        
        Obviously the safety of yourself and your colleagues was foremost in the police. But use of force and duty of care was also right up there.
        
        It's hard to compare Australia to America because here you assume noone has a gun so you can afford to be more relaxed in doing your job. Over there I think it's fair to assume whoever you deal with is probably armed so your mindset would be completely different. That doesn't change the fact that you are still accountable for your actions.
        
        Those officers that deal with riots and crowd crowd control (in QLD it's the public safety response team) don't fuck around. They are pretty heavy handed (and with good reason).
        
        If I was in the press covering a riot I would be wearing a reflectorised vest stating such. If the cops got physical then I think you would have grounds for complaint. Otherwise, occupational hazard.
        
        Bourbon Man > Adam Magrath June 2, 2020 at 7:55pm
        
        Well, it is super important to me for the reasons I indicated earlier in this thread, but I'm happy to leave it at that!
        
        Kramerica > Adam Magrath June 2, 2020 at 11:58pm
        
        That makes alot of sense - and pretty much explains what happened to these reporters and why - thanks mate.
        
        Haven't watched the Armstrong thing yet but I am recording it. I did my biggest ever riding month in May - 1542km's. Now I've got a busted wheel and won't get a replacement till June 25 - good excuse to take it a bit easy and hit the mountain bike for a while :)
        
        Adam Magrath > Kramerica June 3, 2020 at 4:53pm
        
        Far out that’s crazy, I probably do about 542kms a month.
        
        Wizards" Supermax” Sleeve > Bourbon Man June 2, 2020 at 5:55pm
        
        I'm going to ask this with the utmost respect and in no way meaning to be directed at your wife , family , freinds or you , Bourbs . You've always been one of my fav posters here for many years .
        
        But , as you're very much invested in the current situation of racial tensions in the U.S , and you brought up the topic of immigrants in Australia , I ask this as a generally interested person in your opinion here and not someone having a shot .
        
        why do you think it's only the POC that seem to have issues with racist cops targeting and killing them in the U.S ?
        
        Bourbon Man > Wizards" Supermax” Sleeve June 3, 2020 at 9:12am
        
        Wiz, its not just POC pissed with racist cops. They're pissed off with a society that has traditionally not treated them equally. I didn't know much about it until I met Theresa but the things she has subsequently told me, shown me has demonstrated an unarguable case that there are two systems that operate over in the US.
        
        I'll give you three quick examples:
        
        When Dylann Roof - that despicable white supremist, shot up the Church in Charleston, South Carolina, kiling 9 black people, upon his arrest police sent out for burgers for him.
        
        This is in contrast to holding a man down to the point that he dies of asphyxiation for the suspected tender of a counterfeit $20 bill to buy cigarettes.
        
        Now, firstly, did the cops do the wrong thing in feeding Roof? No, they acted humanely as their charter decrees, once having taken a suspect into custody. But he killed 9 innocent people!!!
        
        Was George Floyd an entirely innocent man? No. He had a criminal record and, whilst it hasn't been confirmed, probably did tender a counterfeit $20 note - which is hardly the crime of the century and certainly did not deserve death.
        
        Now, you might argue that these are isolated incidents and to conflate them into one argument about mistreatment of POC is crossing a bridge too far. Well, consider the sad tale of Emmett Till only as long ago as 1955. I'll post a link and you can check it out:
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till
        
        This is something that just does not happen to white people. Certainly not in the USA! And by its very grotesque nature, demonstrates a particular brand of traditional 'justice' reserved for POC.
        
        Finally, and this one is personal - I've told a few folk on here this story:
        
        My wife told me the story of when she got pulled over late at night after driving home from her second job because of a broken tail light. Cop pulled his gun on her whilst asking whether she had drugs or weapons in the car. She had to ask permission to reach into her handbag to show her licence and registration. She has no criminal record, was raised by a loving mother, did well in school, had a good job and owned her own home. And she's the daughter of a cop in Jacksonville, yet she thought she was going to die that night - all because of a broken tail light.
        
        I love my wife and it makes me tear up just thinking about it.
        
        This is something that you or I will never experience. And I'm glad for it!!
        
        But, to hide behind aggregate figures that get parroted by conservative media outlets like Breitbart and Fox News to deny that there is a real problem in the US - not just from police towards POC but towards POC in general, is to be wilfully ignorant.
        
        Finally, is it fair to stereotype members of the black community, or Latinos, based on their perceived proclivity to be involved in criminal activity? Yes and no. Stereotyping is something we all do. But, the difference here is the stereotype that Asians can't drive or that Indians haggle might be bigoted, but rarely involves a fatal misunderstanding.
        
        The stereotype that black people are going to break into your home and steal your shit might be the reason why police officer Amber Guyger broke into Botham Jean's home and shot him dead whilst he was watching TV and eating ice cream.
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Botham_Jean
        
        The reality here for me is that, if you came home to find your wife, or your child needlessly slain because of a misunderstanding, or for a petty crime or misdemeanour, your whole world would be turned upside down and you would be furious, distraught, possibly wanting revenge etc. There is no difference as to how black folks feel and it has taken up to this point before the tipping point has finally been reached.
        
        It is not excusable behaviour to riot in the streets nor destroy others' property, but, people are just at their wits end. It is not excusable but perhaps it is understandable.
        
        Emmett Till
        
        Emmett Louis Till (July 25, 1941 – August 28, 1955) was a 14-year-old African American who was lynched in Mississippi in 1955, after being accused of…
        
        Wizards" Supermax” Sleeve > Wizards" Supermax” Sleeve June 3, 2020 at 2:04pm
        
        Bourbs and Hoe thanks for your replies I will read them after work as I'm a bit snowed and just ducked out for a quick Ciggie . HOE I appreciate your links and stats it's great when someone takes the time to counter a debate with factuals .
        
        Bourbs , I look forward to reading yours mate .
        
        in the meantime , I have not fact checked this and just saw it on Facebook ( must be true ) . I think the funniest part of this is he had this stunner and she left him due to his bad publicity . Such an Asian thing to do ( JOKES)
        
        Hell On Eels > Wizards" Supermax” Sleeve June 3, 2020 at 6:11pm
        
        Thanks Wiz, likewise. Nothing like a good debate, mate. I think it's healthy to disagree on things, too and talk about it. You're a very intelligent poster, so it's always a pleasure.
        
        PS: I'm a Aussie-Euro-wog, and also have an Asian wife, a stunner in my eyes, and she has promised to not walk out if I ever get into trouble or we are penniless. Only if there's another woman! So, not all Asians are the same.
        
        Electric Eel > Bourbon Man June 2, 2020 at 7:12pm
        
        Perhaps the word "curfew" menas just that and that is exactly what they have been instructed to enforce? EVERYONE aside from Law Enforcement off the streets! No dount the media have been seen on many instance to be worsening the situation and they just want to shut it down.

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'Merica: Just how f@#ked is it?

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