Interesting questions have been raised (constantly) about our club and a SCAPEGOAT to blame.
Personally I am usually quick in seeing obvious problems and when you look at the period my experience covers, I have seen most of the things that only Parramatta supporter's can lament and relate to.
This particular one is a quandry, I think MONS needs to go, but I don't actually blame him for any of the events that recognise the damage that has been outlined. I think he could be sitting back in his arm chair asking how he ended up in this mess?.......... I don't think he has ever been the final decision maker on most of the things we would like to blame him for.
The other protaganist and yes Scapegoat is Jim Saratinos? So I am going to critique both him and MON's and explain why they have been blamed
The pathways coaches are recognised for their strong roles in rescuing the situation post Covid and I see no blame evolving there (unless it is still evolving).....the fan base tend's to overate them (our juniors) because we should be so strong in this area, yes we are a Development Club and we do provide a lot of players.....we would it seems not be overly good at bringing through the ones that we would like to claim. Maybe we are just victim's of that process as we have struggled to obtain balance with juniors and recruitment and in endeavoring to satisfy that equation.......Fcuked up Both!
Reverting to MONS you need to go back to his recruitment, he probably was never the right guy to table as General Manager Football whereas the reality is that the first grade coach in both BA's and JR's terms have been the final arbitar in almost all decisions outside of the financial impact of cap and policy. I think MON's has probably done a fine job in structuring and recruiting pathway coaches, even the women's coach.
So this leads me to the final "scapegoat" Bernie Gurr! What!! you say....the guys the best thing to happen post the renaissance!.... yes that's true! he did a great job...but did he finish it?
I blame Bernie because he recruited MON as a General Manager Football, a role that he showed was pretty toothless because BA's power was at its peak and he (BA) really was the guy, making the decisions on recruitment and retention. Yes the position (GM) was part of the review, but a more constructive process would have allowed the person to grow into the role where the structure allowed it to.
MON's went about his business developing pathways and faciltating people in lower level's behind First and Second Grade and executing signings made for him. Never really empowered in the primary sense..
Jim Saratinos inherited Bernie's role, Jim is obviously a fine administrator and financial manager.....as a CEO empowered to be much more decisive about football matters, he simply wasn't !
Based on his inexperience in that role which he basically stayed out of and during the initial period that he came in, he saw/ recognised that BA had things under control and was content to leave it at that.
Intelligent people do quickly learn just the same and all the time this was happening Jim was learning heaps about the football side and I can only presume making judgements of the relative incumbents. He never had the football background or experience that Bernie had, who would have maybe acted very differently if he chose to stay on.....he left for greener pastures in the states, but is to this day still a passionate Parramatta supporter.
So we were left with our primary scapegoats and to evaluate the thoughts that come through this forum, we need to understand better than we do that things are not as Black and White to just go out and attack individuals for the perception of their failures.
Too many people on here put themselves in a position of decision makers, whereas they have no real understanding of how business works or things happen, everyone is entitled to an opinion, not saying that, just saying that the intelligence and actual judgement of making these things happen are stuffed up in a lot of busineses without thinking the guys have no fcuking idea!
I can only think of our politicians in comparison, but just remember, you put them there as well!!!
I don't have the answers BTW but Iam writing this so an understanding of the pieces that make up the "Parra Lament" are understood better. Everyone seems to have the answers by "sacking MON and JS" without understanding how pieces fit and what needs to be done......My initial reaction is that MON needs to go, because his credibility has now got huge question marks and that JIM needs to stay as I think we need a CEO like him but with the understanding of having proper GM Football who reports through him.....the GM Football needs a lot of thought because I would actually have Ryles also reporting to him, with a clear defintion I might add. Obviously that person needs to be very "powerful" to command such a role!
An after thought by the way and not a recommendation, is that Jason Ryles could be a great GM Football and he appoints a coach to work under him! Early days for such a move, but I think that's where a lot of these processes need to head in the sense of how a coach is perceived......Foz's example of a coach and what he is achieving is an example that the modern day coach can keep it simple and the GM does the slogging!
An heirachel structure at Parra could be GM Football runs all Football Matters.....reports through CEO for Finance & Administration Matters...... . First Grade Coach reports through and appointed by GM Football,........ Manager Pathways and Administration reports through GM Football.
Replies
Captain, I agree with all of that above. The distinction between being responsible and being accountable is vital.
I will note here, though, that under the glare of a critique of scaepgoating, you took the time to clearly articulate a non-scapegoating critique of MON.
I am then just saying that too many are simply not being as careful and pointed as you were above, and instead are collapsing accountable into responsible, which is one recipe for scapegoating.
Thanks Cappy and Daz,
When reading your first list of duties Cappy, I could not but think "motherhoods".
I am a bit out of it these days, so I am sure my thinking doesn't suit current objectives and processes in the executive management scene. I say this when I refer to Mons list of duties and how you go about them for 'abstract things like executive leadership.
Those duties to me are something that has been constructed by the "human resources dork" who wants to make sure the job gets a higher enough profile to meets the points he has made to reach their objectives of a definition of an executive profile. I will just about guarantee you that list was written before MON was employed!
Let me say if I was looking at that list as my duties, I would diesect out exactly like Daz has done in seperating a set of "abstracts" like talent scouting ...... a skil that is indefinable and something that is dear to my heart, as President of a Grade Cricket club and Chairman of selectors as part of the process after coaching and identifying, I loved how some guys could just make judgements. A great friend of mine fitted the character, we were watching a 14 year old playing his first game of grade cricket and he got a "pair" I said to my friend what do you think after that....he said he will play First grade before he turns 17, I said how can you say that after getting 2 ducks.....long story short he was playing for Australia when he turned 18. Some people can recognise talent and others you could hit with a sledge hammer and they will never understand what a shit judge they are. Talent scouting belongs to a breed you can't buy!
In Mons case I would say having never met the guy that the initiative to pick up the bat after getting a couple of ducks are not one of his drivers. The fact he has other skils we presume must exist based on his longevity. Your guess in that respect is as good as mine.
I read your last post Cappy and it made me think about accountability.
Again showing my naiviety I believe (this is an insight or as someone could rightfully say a guess).
I suspect that there is not a lot of sophisication of an ownership structure like you outlined with those executives, because that is where the buck stopped.
In Mons case the cards are held pretty much around the one table and my guess is that groups involved in management are all part of a process of not a very high sophisication level.
This brings me back to leadership and initiative and the missing link is that aggressive driver, whether that is a Gould,Richardson , Matt Cameron, Ponissi or the like or another version of benevolent dictarship such as a Politis, a Russell Crow (involved benefactor) and finally as Hoey often points out the "sugar daddies" of the rich clubs, like Laudy's etc.
In a club like Parramatta this is something we have been structured as part of the renaissance to avoid.....it could be what's biting us on the arse and yes I have no answers other than Mathew Beach needs to play a leadership role at a level above the known incumbents.....JS, MON, JR,
Poppa, I can add to your anecdote about the grade cricketer. Sometimes I see grad students whom I think "they will make it", and others "nah they will not make it". Academia is a hyper competitive market, with precariat positions more the norm now than tenured and the road to tenue now often going through years of precariat and soft-money research positions. As one of the lucky tenured I realize that sometimes the judgment of "they will NOT make it" is institition specific. Not here, but maybe there. For contingent reasons to do with those instititional contexts.
Thus, spotting "talent" is actually relational? It's seeing some things that suggest success is feasible, but also making judgments about under which contexts that success is most likely?
With those thoughts in mind, my bet is that talent scouting for footy players has similar issues attached to it
What metrics are you using to conclude that he is failing in those 3 aspects of his role?
All cat typing memes are confessions!
I will summarise each paragraph so 1ee fans don't have to read the over the extended runtime.
Paragraph
1. - poppa sees himself as better and more knowledgeable than most 1ee posters on football matters.
2. Poppa says Mark O’Neill isn't to blame.
3. All Parramatta fans are over estimating our jnrs ( EA Take note ) so nobody is to blame for the lack of development because our jnrs are just average and nothing out of the ordinary.
4. Mon is exonerated from recruitment failure, the blame should be more on BA and Jason Ryles
5. Mon is doing a good job taking care of the people who take care of pathways
6. Sarantinos wasn’t employed football related problems. More financial, meaning Sarantinos is exonerated from all football related matters.
7. Pop says, Sarantinos gave bushie the full reigns in football administraton, because Sarantinos knew nothing about it so Sarantinos is exonerated from all scapegoat blame.
8. Rambling
9. 1ee posters have no idea how businesses work, so we can't make judgement on Sarantinos
10. Politicians aren't to blame because we voted them in
11. Now pop is saying O'neill should walk after saying there should be no scapegoats
12. Poppa says Ryles could take O'neill's job
13. Nonsensical/Senseless: Having no meaningful purpose
All that prattle shakes out to "Ryles Fault"
I mean you can through who and who isn't responsible for what.
Thing is like on the park are we looking for improvement in the playing group why should we not expect better people off the field and improvement there also.
MoN is in everyone's sights at the moment rightfully or wrongly if a better person is a available would the club look to hire this person and relieve MoN of his duties.I mean he's been here a long time now much like BA has he reached his used by date.Are the board chairman looking to improve that spot or is the devil you no the reason why he still has a job.How influenced are our board by the noise outside.For me MoN has gone pretty much unscathed with regards to the media what if the narrative change would the club cave to public opinion,it felt that way with the last coach.When they chased Bennett they felt they had to come and explain themselves to the media finally settling on JR.They'll call that being thorough me what other choice was there Josh Hannay no one of profile wanted to come here and that leads into our recruitment woes also when attracting top tier talent.
Thing I dislike the most there's more questions than outright answers and it goes back to what I really struggle with in regards to this club our culture and identity suck from the top down it doesn't feel like it's driven from up high at all.
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