Will 5150 wrote an excellent post that referred to our CULTURE. This prompted me to think how easily we use the word without actually understanding what it means, my views are no different.

I agree in general with you Will 5150 and I think you have identified the "subjectivity" but maybe not the "objectivity".

Culture is becoming a difficult word to "quantify" Its become too easily alluded to without understanding "it now" !

I think the culture of this site means well but it betrays everything that you are looking for in Parramatta, loyalty, understanding  and circumstantial empathy......not to mention going off "half cocked".

No better than the negativity around our recruitment of JAC ......definitely does not identify with the culture you are promoting but a guy once he has arrived has had a tremendously positive influence on our "team" culture.

As i said I agree with you in culture being an issue for Parra, but I feel we have to create it before we live it. (maybe that's vice versa I am not sure either). I suppose I am saying it needs to evolve!

I don't think in the recruitment of an indivual you can be positive his/her effect can have on morale and culture. Its more a judgement when recruiting  him/her agreeing that they are willing to be part of the culture we are trying to create and them wanting to be inclusive of it.

Penrith were once no different, Storm have created a special culture.....is the Rooster's culture a totally positive one?  the same for the Broncs..... its not easy in the 80's Parra developed that special culture through Gibson and it was briefy mirrored by Monie but we then lost it via "immature" management after that and by the time we got into the 2000's we were for once starting a new culture only to again lose it via bad luck and weak management.......do those two things go together?

We enter this era post the foundation building that BA was part of and then lost, again through weak management (both coaching and administration). I think some of those management lessons have been re learnt and I am hopeful Ryles can take us there. Jim Saratinos has the makings of becoming an excellent CEO with the lessons he has been exposed to. The jury is most certainly out on the retention /recruitment group. The new coaching structure will hopefully give them a direction, with that General Manager Football yet to appear?

Lets include here that the weak management /administration was in the football area and not the financial. The improvement in that area was marked and should not be overlooked in judgement.

I see no more excuses for weak management, either the current group becomes refined to matching the coaching standard or we are back in the hole! That seems to be happening as well as there is  now a definite sync between financial and football.

How would you individually explain "CULTURE" in one a broad sense and two as a "PARRAMATTA Rugby League thing"

If people want to be negative then fine but in identifying the problem, offer a solution, if its personal offer an alternative. Its easy to be a " Seagull" "Shit" and then fly off again.

PS Don't get lost on the Dyllan Brown thing, try to be more generalised and then refer back to it if you must.

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  • It really isn't that difficult to understand, it's a place where players want to be for less money than they would otherwise get elsewhere. That is how you quantify culture. There's a lot that goes into what makes that happen but in a nutshell that is it.

    I hope in regards to Dylan Brown that he leaves, he has signalled his own selfish intentions with little regard for the club or it's ongoing success. I'm hoping that those in charge learn from our mistakes in how we've managed his transition into first grade and not repeat those mistakes with his replacement. Handing out large sums of money to a talented kid with not a hint of loyalty was a massive blunder on our part, not to mention the terms of his contract. This is the exact opposite approach the Storm would take and this is why players want to remain at their club for less, the culture they have built and the success they enjoy.

    Personally I find it concerning with some posters comments that Ryles is building a reserve grade team because we haven't signed established stars on big dollars. If you want to completely fuck our culture and whilst we're at it our salary cap that's exactly what we should do. We need to accept that not all players want to be at the Eels and that is perfectly ok, we don't want them. The days of feeling the need to sign or retain players or get into bidding wars for a players signature needs to stop. There are always more fish in the sea, we need to identify players who are willing to be with us for the right reasons. It will take time but the results will eventually come.

    Anyway, those are my thoughts on where we are at.

    • By your logic Adam, the Warriors must have a bad culture by letting their best player AFN go. Penrith the same, they let Luai and JFH go, and it was all for more money, not culture. Gutho left not because of culture, he thought he had another 3yrs left in him, the club didn't, the same with RCG. Culture does play a part in a clubs success, or failure but, for me, dollars and demographics play a bigger part. Dylan Brown leaving means, according to some, we have a bad culture, if he stays, does that mean we have a good culture?. People are still living in the 80's, when we had the cream of the crop, they stayed for less money and won 4 premierships, it was a sport to them, that's loyalty and good culture but, today, Rugby league is a business more than a sport.

      • Great comments Michael, you pose all the right questions and identify the professionalism as against the amatuer junior league mentality. This is not kids sport, which coincidently enough also has a culture all on its own.

        Horses for courses is very applicable and that component then becomes an important aspect of this thread.

        • Adam, we are on different "plains" your opening paragraph belies the culture because it is a result, not a cause!

          Santa Claus reflects a Christmas Culture but what makes the culture Santa Claus or the effect of Xmas.

          All the football teams play Rugby league, what differentiates them in a cultural make up sense?

          History, Players, Supporters, Sponsor's, Management, Affordibility ?????? questions alone.

          You are worried about fcuking a culture and a salary cap.....I think the intangible is the people portion. The culture is owned, the cap is equal. Perceptions of cap of course can be cynical, say in Roosters case, does this effect the culture? My guess is no, most people there seem to love the place. Broncos cap is also cynical in expectation and they would not be as happy as Roosters on Face value.

          Reece Walsh, is on a salary greater than Dyllan Brown, is Reece's contrubution as a player greater? he certainly draws crowds and a following. Of course his defence is shit compared to Dyllans but of course his attack is great, especially against weaker teams when his forwards do all the work. Who does Dyllans work? I tell you what Dyllan also does, he loves playing against the good teams.....NZ's best on the field in the final of the World Cup.

          Nah! Sorry Adam your part of the problem, not the cure!

          i.e. Dyllan Brown's contribution is very different to what you recognise. Anyone those knows the game realises his value. i.e. we have a team whose greatest weakness has been identified as defence.....here we have a player nearly uniformly regarded as the best defending half in the competition, he has saved Parra's arse on so many occasions with his defence but we have a supporter culture that doesn't accept that because they have seen how good an attacking player he can be as well. So they say he hasn't delivered on his potential.

          Frankly these judgement say much more about the jury than the judge. So it seems that Dyllan Brown is reflecting his negativity to the culture because these opinions dominate the mentality of supporters like yourself who have limited appreciation of the finessing of these details.

           

    • Ads players taking unders forms part of the mix but not the sole determinant of " good culture" - what you've mentioned is important, when players commit to a cause or a goal that's greater than themselves it gives you an insight into someone character - under BA players were loyal to him and the club came second,  it's no surprise Ryles had do move quickly and tell players to look elsewhere . BA at the end was concerned with SELF preservation and that energy is not compatible with " good culture" . I would change the wording to " unshakeable culture"  - whatever BA built was fragile, closed shop and obsessed with keeping senior aligned only to him regardless of performance. As for Dylan Brown it's a disappointment outcome, just because you have manager it doesn't mean you can't steer the ship, take control and approach negotiations with with authenticity &  honesty - conduct yourself with professionalism and keep these matters inhouse, approach the club and tell them you're intentions. - DB has had  some fine examples of to conduct yourself like Gutho " club captain"!! Matterson..I don't want DB gone but paying overs I'm definitely against! Like others have mentioned a "strong cultural" start from the top and filters down the chain in every part of the operation - we have been dipping our toes as club but hopefully Ryles leads the way and connect us back to our true identity! I'm optimistic I'm not worried about Jason Ryles the main concern is MON, Rodgers & Jim S 

      • Hey mate, lots of intangibles in what makes up "culture" but that is the one that is measurable - players willing to stay for less. There's no definitive answer to what is good culture, for different organisations it's different things. I've gone from a mining career to being a volunteer at an organisation which in my view has a lot better culture - why? It clearly isn't money.

        This is what I'm saying we have to identify and build upon those things outside of the salary cap (which is everyone's constraint) to have a group where players want to be and others are drawn to. At the moment our only pulling power with top tier players is the dollar and options in their contract. Lomax took unders for sure, I think we are heading in the right direction but early days:)

        • Some great insights Ads, I'm in agreement with the points  you've made.

        • One sentence mate,. Parramatta as a club it's the actions and accountabilities. If the board, players and fans buying you will end up with great culture.

    • Not sure about that. I would think alot of us have left a company which had great culture to another with great culture, the company we left culture did not change.

      Remember Parramatta instigated talks with Brown as they wanted it sorted. I just don't think his manager went about it the right way. It's out now, as long as it is sorted either way with not alot of noise.

      As for culture, I've coached alot of footy teams and that word gets thrown around alot. For me culture is understanding what is expected of you as an individual on and of the field, fans and coaches. Remember your actions effect alot of people. Parramatta as a club need to understand you grow culture you cannot buy it.

      Players by there positive actions create great culture. Better reading Eels had a great win then drunken Eels player gets kicked out of pub from drunken behaviour at 2 in the morning. Players need to look after each other, build the community faith, good culture will follow.

      Once a club has a good culture it's hard to break it as players will police it.

      • Good points Graham. I like that concept of retain it as the players will police it. It maybe chicken and egg, because I think we need a driver /catalyst to make it and then that second phase comes in.

        On reflection you could say in the first 3 years of BA's tenure he created a good culture, but it was through a base of self preservation for all and the total commitment that resulted. 

        i always thought 2018 was the players releasing all that "preservation" and that was the real reason we had the terrible year we had then, we blamed a lot of things and started really well in the first round against Penrith and that was our demise and the start of the Penrith cultural change, They (Penrith) went bad the year after that, not disimilar to our past two years, came back and made the GF in 2220..... the rest is history and a culture was born!

        My optimism this year is built around what Ryles is creating, this thing with DB has the potential to put us back again.

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