Replies

  • Actually Michael Moore is championing population control. What Jeff Gibbs found was that you need traditional fuel sources to make renewables work, and always will.

    • Wrong, Brett, but the Bible is not a great source on energy economics, so I forgive you and will let you pass through the gates. 
      It is technically possible to back up renewables with battery storage. But that would necessitate overhauling the electrical grid itself. 
      Do not confuse pragmatic and business as usual grounds for possibility grounds. Of course you are free to do so and thus use the word "always" more loosely than Pell adheres to the spirit of Christianity, but honest argument such a conflation would not be.

  • Interesting doc. I agree with its basic premise: we can't get out of fossils - using electric, and solar and wind renewables - as they're dependant on fossils. And that they create other problems, besides their inefficiencies. Nor are biomasses/ biofuels a solution.

    Brett & Parratragic, as fine ambassadors of anthropogenic-caused climate change denialism, what do you think Moore's purpose of releasing this film is ?

     

    • I just finished watching this with my wife Tragic.....you are right this is a must see.

      Climate Change has again been put into the perspective of one of the great "cons" of world history.

      There are all sorts of grey areas and arguments but the bottom line does not change.....I hope "naivettes" of this world like Tad and his fellow subscribers watch this and understand it is not as simple as listening to a scientest and presuming their expertise as a proof of anything.

      Of course the tenure of this whole argument is more about human being's and their ongoing destruction of the planet......

      After watching this I am left with the only alternatives to our energy needs are Clean Coal, Gas, Hydro and Nuclear.

      The concept of renewables is fine in principle but quiet simply doesn't work in CONTEXT.

      It seems to me that CONTEXT is the real Elephant in the room.

      Finally some of the profiteers from Branson, Mckibbon, Gore and the innumerable bankers, big busineeses etc have done nothing but hoodwink the innocents that line up protesting and crapping on about renewables and the patronage of the climate change debate.

      I woud love to see their response to this documentary but even then we know it will be written by spin doctors in concert that will twist words and create all sorts of reasoning as to why "it" is not factual.

      People take note and watch this, yes it is long and at times tedious but never enter into this debate again until you have watched it.

      • Poppa, so why not address that CONTEXT???

        Fossil fuel corporations are violently opposed to losing market share to renewables. 

        Now let's do a hypothetical, Poppa, one that addresses the context. When cars were first introduced in the 1890's they were loud and dirty and fast for the times and only the rich had them and everyone else hated them. Then the Model T Ford came out in 1908 and was affordable and by the 1920's cars were IT and still are today. As the cost of renewables drops, more people equip their roof with solar PV, more utilities use wind and solar to supply electricity, and fossil fuels start leaning on governments for subsidies because they are dying industries with big lobby power. The beginning of the end for fossil fuel has already begun. The relevant context for an infrastructure technology - and transport and electricity are both infrastructure technologies - will always be economies of scale and the power of monopolies. Currently that context keeps fossil fuels going but it will not and cannot last, almost by definition - see "peak oil" (and where do you think gas fields are found?). 

        If we are going to talk context then let's actually talk context!!!

        • Actually I think my interpretation of CONTEXT and its place in the discussion was much more informative than your rant about historical realities that we all understand and yes history implies that it has happened and what needs to happen now as a result of that "are/is the lessons learnt".....you have it seems not seen that in the CONTEXT.

          Mainly because the lessons learnt including the failure of renewables and your answers do not necessarily coincide with solving the problem at this point of time.

          Just accept you don't know the answers anymore than most of us.

          Your arrogance with regard to your perceptions would undoubtably come from the classroom which is understandable. What is not understandable is your lack of humility in accepting you maybe WRONG!

          • My arrogance or otherwise is irrelevant, Poppa. If you spotted an error, prosecute your case. Everything else is just bluster. You have not pointed out any error. You claimed vaguely about a failure of renewables. Where? When? How? Specifics or you got nothin. 
            PS: and who is arrogant here anyway? You pontificate without vague assertions but that's OK. I get specific and I'm the a-hole? LOL

            • No! you don't/ didn't listen to the message......here is one for you ......in the land of the blind, he with one eye is King untill some one with two comes along....... from where I'm looking with my one eye, you are no different.

              This is a site that personafies fun, some humour and discussion of generalities, it is not a format to pontificate from a lecturn of your superiority. 

              Have a look at what you wrote, do you honestly think that other than about 2 or 3 others anyone is going to go back and challenge your quotes, especially when you see the hard facts in the doc delivered by one of your own...... end discussion.

              If someone did and actually knew what they were talking about ..... do you think we would know the right answer.

              My suggestion is go and do your own doco, present it to the multitude and we can then post about how wise and wonderful you are and how once we discussed with him this very subject.

              In the mean time make it interesting.....your boring and much funnier when you are giving it to Snake, that I can enjoy!

              • Poppa, I'll throw a spanner in here if I may. You say: 

                "especially when you see the hard facts in the doc delivered by one of your own"

                How do you know they are hard facts? Do you have evidence to back up all the claims made in the documentary? And just to be clear, yes I watched it.

                • CGI ???

                  I have no evidence Milky.... I just watched the doco..... it could be trick photography I suppose..... but I thought if Moore was prepared to admit he was wrong....then the least I could do and say was, he was right!

                  This time! Lol

                  PS To quote from the movie "Independance Day" Will Smith says to his mate..... "can you do all that shit?"

                  In this case using Daz's argument......ask the same question of everyone!

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