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      Frank The Tank > Magpie June 4, 2020 at 2:33pm

      

      It is a conspiracy but not just from the left. The conspiracy also involves RINOs members of his own party...they will do anything to stop his re-election 

      Yes, you can try to undermine and derail the opposition but you do it legally.

      Everything these low lives have done since his election campaign began, has had a criminal edge to it, ie Russiagate, the setting up of political opponents and the illegally issued FISA warrants....

      Obama in effect armed his office with illegal information gathered by his counter intelligence agencies to spy on political opponents and he denied it.
      He lied........this has been proven (all coming out now) and this has never been done before by any president. The lefts demigod is actually a crim.
      
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        Magpie > Frank The Tank June 4, 2020 at 7:20pm

        

        Cointelpro?

        Watergate?
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      Frank The Tank > Magpie June 4, 2020 at 2:35pm

      And you see no issue with all of the above?

      Imagine if these frauds were perpetrated by Trump on OBUMMA or Biden?
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    Wile E. Coyote > Frank The Tank June 4, 2020 at 11:38pm

    Nailed it Tank
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  Prof. Daz June 4, 2020 at 10:01am

  Some comments in this thread suggest race is a convenient fig leaf for maybe just bad behavior. No, you are wrong.

  I have been to the US many times, but more importantly, I lived in South Carolina and in Minnesota. I also lived in Canada for 15 years and was in the US very often.  

  Yes, drug and crime and gangs make some areas no-go zones if you are not the right ethnicity or race. That's because the US tolerates armed militias. And because intolerance toward "the other" is systemic in the US. 
  
  Thus, I can tell you race is not a convenient tag line. Race is not the entire story but it is a damn big part. Don't make the mistake of ignoring race relations just because they are not the whole story or because some pretend they are.

  I was living in South Carolina when OJ Simpson was acquitted in 1995. I watched as crowds of blacks cheered like they just won the lottery. I did not understand it. I asked a mate of mine, Charles, a black guy, to explain it to me. He said he could talk all night but would I come to visit his family in Kentucky? A really good family with a brother in jail, a cousin in a drug gang, parents who worked 2-3 jobs and gave every dime to the kids. It was really confronting to hear stories of things said to them. I'm sorry, but whites don't get that shit. If we are called farang or white ghost or whitey we move on because the insult is not connected to systemic judgements of our humanity or IQ and nor is it the reason not to employ us.

  In 1997 I was living in Minneapolis and went to the "wrong"  movie theatre, before I knew the lay of the racial land. A white security guard intercepted me and told me not to sit with the scum. His word. Not that I might be in danger. But that the blacks were scum.

  Last year I was in New Orleans. A conference. A black guy sat with me and a friend at a chicken place late one night after Bourbon Street adventures. For the price of a chicken wing he told us his story post-Katrina. Guess who were left behind in the hurricane? Guess who had their former houses condemned and bought up by wealthy companies? 

  Anyone who thinks race relations are not a big part of the US chaos right now, and who does not understand the pernicious effects of systemic racism, has both never lived in the US and never stopped to wonder what a culture feels when they grow up being stigmatized and they grow up in conditions of very obvious economic inequality. Guess what? You get pissed off. You tend to disrespect authority. And you lack patience for people who tell you that when you break and do shit that' it's actually all on your and behave yourself. 
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    Kramerica > Prof. Daz June 4, 2020 at 2:18pm

    

    Nice story about OJ. Nice that they thought it was OK for a man to stab a woman to death and revilled in him getting away with murdering a woman. That's touching.

    There was a white truck driver (Reg Denny) who was doing his job - driving his truck - when he came to the intersection of Florence and Normandy in SC LA back in '92. He had to stop at the intersection and was dragged from the cab and kicked, punched, beaten and hit with a claw hammer until he lay semi concious on the ground. One of the "protestors" stood on his neck to enable the other 3 to carry out the assault (oh, the irony). As he attempted to get to his feet one of the "protestors" raised a cinder block high above his head and smashed it into Denny's head then did a little dance while Denny lay unconcious and dying. Eventually 4 actual protesters came to Denny's rescue (absolute legends) and one of them actually drove him straight to hospital (in Denny's truck) no doubt saving his life. The four attackers were all black. The four saviours were also all black.

    Seeings as you were sharing stories Daz I thought this was a beauty. It was all caught on camera and you can check it out on youtube.

    There's no place for violence Daz. None whatsoever. Even racism isn't a worthy excuse. Even the 4 black angels who lived in South Central and were no doubt extremely angered over the debacle that was the Rodney King verdict understood and believed this.
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      Frank The Tank > Kramerica June 4, 2020 at 2:52pm

      

      Well said Kram!!

      Also at least you ain't cherry picking like the lefties always do.
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        Prof. Daz > Frank The Tank June 4, 2020 at 8:09pm

        

        And what cherries are you picking, Frank? You have hundreds of years of post-slavery America during which racial and economic inequalities experienced by blacks are perfectly well documented, but ya know, there is always some white person who had it rough too. Right? Who the fuck is cherry picking?!
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      Prof. Daz > Kramerica June 4, 2020 at 8:00pm

      

      Kram, lets have a look at this exchange and then see what point stands. 
      
      You claimed race relations were a convenient fig  leaf over violence, suggesting the protests could be divorced from race relations. 
      
      I told some anecdotes, because you had suggested anyone familiar with the US would know there is violence on either side of the racial divide. it's one thing to visit a place. What happens when you live there? I spent years there in both the south east and mid west 

      My stories were meant to indicate that many black Americans experience systemic racism extending to way before either of us were born. The OJ Simpson story illustrates Of course it makes sense to consider it reprehensible to cheer OJ. But to many blacks it represented a cynical response to a history of always getting the short end of the stick. It's a confronting interpretation but I'm telling you it's the thought that was conveyed to me repeatedly when I asked.

      Again, you can't extract the experience of systemic racism from that story or others and still pretend you understand the Black American experience. 
      
      Now look at your response. A story about a white guy suffering violence. How does that change the point that to understand blacks experience you have to understand their experience of their culture?

      Yeah, exactly, your story fails to address it. Put simply, it's invincible ignorance.

      You sound like the Nazi who told stories about the Jew over-charging them one time. I'm sure you don't mean to sound that way so I just say have a think about it. 
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        Kramerica > Prof. Daz June 4, 2020 at 11:51pm

        

        My point is that violence solves nothing - violence for, against, with or in the name of blacks, whites, yellows and any other color (American spelling) you choose to nominate is unacceptable.

        That's not a point that makes me sound like a Nazi, or invincibly ignorant. You've completely missed my very simple point. I don't disagree with anything you have said, or are argueing. I don't deny black systematic racism for a minute. I simply don't believe violence does the cause any favours whatsoever and ultimately does far more harm than good. That has been proven to be correct over many decades and it will be proven to be correct again in this instance - that may be unsatisfactory to you (and me) but it doesn't change the fact that nothing will change as a result of what is happening right now.

        I have lived in America as well. I still work in the US around 6 months of the year and have been doing so for 20 years. My business works exclusively for a US company. I understand American culture.

        There's no need to suggest that I'm ignorant Daz - this isn't an arguement that can be won or lost. I am absolutely, utterly convinced however that non violent mass protest would achieve so much more than what we are witnessing right now - it may even encourage a few elites who actually have the power to lobby government and actually achieve something to get involved. Won't happen though.