Listening this morning, alan Jones interviewing israel folou who is raising 3 million dollars from public donations for his legal fees against rugby Australia for unfair dismissal. This morning Israel said his fight is because of his strong Faith , beliefs in the bible that has made him who he is today. Now personally ive nothing against him what so ever, but he mentions to jones very strongly the importance of the bible again on which he lives by , which he comes to as we all know his public condemnation for many sinners who eventually will end up in hell . Can those out there who is familiar with the bible tell me if Israel is 100% correct to pass judgement based on his beliefs ? Here is one quote , but is there another side ?
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TAD, good post mate. You raise a good point. On "guilt".
It was one reason I found no logic in the various churches I partook in, despite positive experiences in the private christian schools of the 80s, where there was a feeling of innocence; a transparent well-intentioned community. They made me feel almost as if it was not a bad thing to be Christian. Until I went out in the real world. Where words of God's love and human actions mixed like oil and water.
My wife is my best friend and the most passionately creative yet intelligent woman I've ever met. Soft and playful as a kitten, moody as a bear on ice. We agree on most things - except God and guilt.
She feels some of the words of scripture, are literally correct. And feels guity if she breaches them - and risk going to hell. Yet she gets angry if people make her "feel guilty". Even if it is years ago.
She tells me it's simple. Follow the rules and stop prodding and probing it. I asked her: Are people so simple as the rules of scripture? She said no. I asked then why should "God be so simple?"
I hope oneday goodwill is done for the sake of goodwill, and nothing more. Not guilt. Not after-life reward. Not even a to earn the rewards of a God. After all all of reality is infinitely inter-connected, as string theorists and others science shows and Tibetan Buddhists. Akin to an eternal family.
Hell is the wooden spoon
He didn’t pass judgement on anybody, he was merely quoting what the Bible says re sinners.
But yes, that verse is accurate.
What has to be understood is that the Bible is multi layered in its messaging.
Brett as I'm not as familiar with the Bible like yourself , are alcoholics and adulters going to be denied a path to heaven ? I can understand homosexuals being denied but surely being a alcoholic and adulter can't be on the same level sin wise ?
Personally I could not give a flying fuck about homosexuals , their feelings or anything about them but alcoholics and adulters are among some of he best people past and present , we have had some great men who have been alcoholics and adulters who have done great things and given much joy to the world.
Fong, yes adulterers and alcoholics too
Fong, if any person has used the paraphrase "two bit dope" more than 100 times, he will definitely joining the fire crew.....
But calling people two bit dopes who in fact are can't be a sin worthy of hell , since when is speaking the truth a sin ?
Lol
But now homosexuals can marry so we can expect homosexual adulters . Now which of your preferred category or non preferred one do they fit into ?
Frankie, the problem is the idea that the singular point of being a Christian is to ensure that you get to Heaven after you die, and certainly that is our eternal reward, and to be fair the Church, in particular the traditional denominations are largely guilty of perpetuating that idea.
But, the Christian walk is just that, it is a lifelong journey in developing a personal relationship with God.
It's like any other relationship, be it marriage, friendship, family relationships, parental relationships, community. How do you get to know your someone better ?
By spending time with them and learning about that person and who they are. The essence of the Christian life is to get to know Him, and we do that by prayer, reading His Word, being involved in His Church, doing good works for those in need. The Christian life is an exercise in selfless generosity in all things, our time, our talents and our treasure.
My Senior Pastor Mark Ramsey is fond of saying that if the whole point of becoming a Christian was just to get to Heaven, we'd line up brand new Christians against a wall and shoot them. The truth is that it's not just about us getting to Heaven, but to bring more of Heaven to Earth.
In other words to be Christ like in everything we do.
So is being an alcoholic or an adulterer Christ like ?
Does this mean being an adulterer or an alcoholic automatically mean you'll spend eternity in Hell ?
IMO, No.
But, in pursuing a relationship with God, and if we are sincere in that pursuit, the Bible says that our hearts and minds will be renewed and the fruits of that renewal will be evident in our lives, and we transform from being sinners to being saints.
The point is that it is about the journey, not the destination.
I'm not sure if this answers your question, but it is hard to communicate the entirety of the gospel in this kind of forum.
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